Postings by Tiller (Skansen's Ira in the M

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Behavior & Training > What did I get myself into? New dog!
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Fri May 17, '13 1:45pm PST 
Aha big laugh Put that in the "no good deed goes unpunished" file....I think it's fantastic. Take it as it comes....she looks darling and is lucky to have, erm, "arranged" her way in laugh out loud
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» There has since been 9 posts. Last posting by Sandy, Today 1:40 pm

Behavior & Training > List of influential trainers and books/essays on their methodologies
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Fri May 17, '13 9:46am PST 
I think the larger problem is that "science based" training is more built on a platform and of a sensibility to present methodology or ideology in an essay form. It also has marketed itself more distinctly than other training has typically. It's like a new book of note every year there, vs one every ten or more in training more generally.

I agree that for a comprehensive understanding of training's various "wings" musts are the Koehler and Monks of New Skete texts, which were the huge seller's in their respective generations (60s/70s and then 80s/90s or thereabouts). Those are the foundation for a lot of what you see and continue to sell well. And then, too, Kevin Behan, for drive training. My brain unfortunately is not working this morning but I recently discovered the name of the person who more or less started the "pack rehabilitation" concept of Cesar et al, but it's not coming to me. I am not sure there is a book, however. I will have to dig.

I think for a very comprehensive study, however, perhaps the best you can do is to read blogs. That's more an ongoing effort, but I think can be pretty darned useful, not only to get a grasp on a style but those more get into the "belly" of an ideology and often may compare or contrast at moments. This might be a good place for such a list?

I am not really the person for that plan laugh out loud, but obviously McConnell's blog is beloved and with good reason.....it seems to me people of diverse styles really enjoy it! I have been snooping on Kevin Muto's, there's Lee Charles Kelly. Not a blog, but Sue Ailsby has some awesome articles on her site and is a super creative R trainer. I see Heather Houlahan quoted quite a bit.

Balanced trainers are catching up with the world of R in terms of training marketing, so now you have to pay to really get into someone like Michael Ellis (Leerburg site) or Balabanov, but those are musts as they are the guides to so many now. Michael Ellis has subtly but distinctly been building a huge fan base.

The other thing would be forums. Leerburg for sure. I found Cesar's forum extremely helpful to understanding why some people swear by him. Forums tend to be the least "filtered" and you can get the best gist for who follows what, why, and what their basic sensibility is.
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» There has since been 2 posts. Last posting by Baby, Fri 7:01 pm


Choosing the Right Dog > Bird Dog Suggestions (Trigger?)

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Wed May 15, '13 4:14pm PST 
I am about to pop a needle in that bubble, but really a GSP still comes up solid. That or a Lab (dual, not strict field)who trumps the GSP as the ultimate for beginners (well bred, 'natch). The other field breeds come up sketchy. I am loathe to say it but you addressed it in your post, so ok.....Labs are very corrections tolerant. So my advice is Lab first, GSP second and then really? Nothin'

Pointers are REALLY sensitive and very prone to issues when their needs are not met (meaning English Pointers). Chessies are too much. Flatties too wiley and sensitive; ditto Curlies. And then the setters are just too stubborn and massively sensitive to corrections.

Labs are so common and we are so used to seeing them poorly bred. A good Lab is as fine a starter dog as there is, and there's so much to them that many never get off them.
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» There has since been 5 posts. Last posting by Moose, Thu 9:04 am


Behavior & Training > How do pet owners who work full-time manage a new puppy?

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Wed May 15, '13 2:00pm PST 
That's a big chunk you are biting off, so you would need to bear that in mind. Particularly because it is you who is saying it needs to be a Weim and it needs to be a puppy, so it is you who will need to absorb the extra challenges and expenses to make sure it works out. A Weim puppy, in other words, cannot help being a Weim puppy. He has no control of that. So this is on you, rather than hoping he'll turn out to be something he is not.

This is a high energy pup with a lot of social need....bear in mind that when you get positive stories from people, the breed they had is part of the equation. Also to keep in mind that puppies do nothing for particularly long. Place him in a room with twenty toys, and he'll still get bored. He is way too young and under way too much energy and sense of exploration impulses for that to not be an unrealistic expectation. In a room for eight hours and it is an unfair situation. He will get bored, pent up and perhaps anxious.

So where you would have to start is to make it as realistic as possible. You MUST go to a good breeder, and prepare for some frustration as a lot of breeders won't sell a Weim into that sort of situation. But stay the course and find one! Never, ever, ever go to a BYB for this breed. Not for any breed, but with this one it is a huge concern, as not selectively bred and they can be very unstable. Do NOT go to a field breeder....go to a show breeder. Then be honest about the dog's lifestyle so they can select a puppy for you best suited.

You need to find a dog walker. It is not enough to say you "can't," for if you HAVE to at some point due to developing behavior issues (which is a known possibility)....then what do you do? At the bare minimum, you would need to be able to afford doggie daycare every day of your work week, for you can't really enter into something that has potential for fallout (a Weim pup alone for that stretch of time) without being willing to offer the resources to alleviate the situation.

You would need to be prepared, on his alone days, to be up minimally an hour early, preferably two, to give him lots of engagement and tucker him out. And then of course when you get home, but that morning work would be critical.
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» There has since been 2 posts. Last posting by , Wed 5:31 pm


Behavior & Training > Muzzles

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Wed May 15, '13 11:31am PST 
I agree with the above, and perhaps this is derailing things OT but it is sort of where things went. Insecurity can indeed be quite mistaken for protectiveness, *particularly* when it is phrased as protectiveness in the person's language and in the mind's eye.

A Mini Aussie can't even technically BE a personal protection dog. Those dogs have to have man stopper power; otherwise, there is a limit to how much they can protect you. I know plenty of Chihuahuas who could be PPD if they were super sized, but they are way too small and way too easy for a threat to deal with.

It's a concern that you may be rewarding "protective" behavior. With this breed, that is likely stressed behavior, and you thereby could be building him towards an aggression problem, which in this case would be reactive vs the contained and higher nerved response that is the PPD more generally.

I am not sure how long you have had him by your page, but you could be building a problem here. I do remain confused as to why you got him as a protection dog....this breed is ill qualified for that role and can suffer if you are misinterpreting his behavior. That aside, as a PPD, there is not much he can do to actually protect in a real "street" situation were the threat actually real. That includes things as simple as visual deterrents....he's very cute! wink
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» There has since been 4 posts. Last posting by Shayne CGC, RL2, Wed 7:06 pm

Choosing the Right Dog > Naming Puppy
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Wed May 15, '13 8:48am PST 
Didn't see this before.....how MARVELOUS! If you don't post a lot of pictures, that is cruel and unusual punishment. Certainly assuming a Berner, and how illegally cute are they? So many of the breeds I've been on are NOT cute puppies, only the Cockers! laugh out loud

I suppose "Hop To It" would be a hopeful name laugh out loud big laugh

Or, I could demonstrate my usual obsessive style and suggest you use the word "Osterfladen"....that's a Swiss Easter cake. Very impressive and male sounding, IMO.
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» There has since been 7 posts. Last posting by Jewel, PCD, Fri 7:59 am


Choosing the Right Dog > Using the sperm of deceased dogs

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 8:10pm PST 
That can boldly vary, absolutely, but ANYONE breeding in twenty years should better what ever it is they are breeding, per their own vision. Or one would hope that's a goal, otherwise they got into breeding simply to produce puppies. I suppose with some rarer breeds that in and of itself is reason enough, but once a breed has that basis, that becomes a little funky....the hope is that the breeders involved are trying to improve the dog. That "improvement" can be whatever their vision is.

So it doesn't have to just a structural improvement, let's say. It can be temperament, working ability, etc. Or if someone says a breed has gone too extreme, you can work towards improvement breeding for less. Quite a few people seem interested in longer legged Dachshunds, in example, and are quite dedicated about it.

One way or the other, you should be improving. That's sort of the core reason for being inspired to breed, unless a breed simply needs numbers. Twenty years of breeding, I'd hope to see a breeder who had come far, outside of that context.

I know that for me, in example, when I do start to breed Cockers, I will be breeding for less coat. Chester has the coat I consider ideal. His breeder was a sporting spaniel breeder, and she started with show dogs and bred "backwards"....but that's still improving. Improving = moving step by step towards your vision, bringing each generation a little closer. My goal is to recreate that old school Cocker temperament, and that would take a very long while. I would start with good temperament, but I want that UNIQUE temperament that made the Cocker the Golden Retriever of its day. That's what Daniel is supposed to be. His type stinks, but he has that bombproof master of merriment thing going on. Labor of love, his breeder actually breeds primarily field Labs (nationally titled and all that jazz), but always has one Cocker litter a year, which she has been doing forever, trying to get that temperament she knew as a kid. It's a side hobby for her and as small as a breeder can get, but she's still dedicated, and giving her points that Daniel is ridiculously kid proof....that's how they used to be. Ideal kids dog.

Tiller's breeder puts out dogs you can pick out from a crowd. Her dogs are REALLY distinct. She actually started with Dobermans and you can see a touch of that in her Giants, and she's also a horsewoman....a Dogster pal who wants a Giant says she wants that "horse like" Giant, meaning those with that sort of look. I was walking into PetSmart a few years ago and this woman ran up screaming "is that dog from California?!" She was a groomer there who had transferred from GA, a slightly Giant heavy region, and as a groomer her eye was that trained. Pretty amazing as his breeder is always importing, so she is taking those import lines then putting her vision on them. Even working within standards (not to say you have to, 'natch), a breeders interpretation can be dynamic.
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by Edward, Fri 6:00 pm


Choosing the Right Dog > Using the sperm of deceased dogs

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 3:52pm PST 
Have you done this, Toto? Curious wink

Oh yes....and I am a total pessimist when it comes to breeding laugh out loud big laugh

I would wonder if this was your dog from like, say, twenty years ago. So now it is twenty years later, your line is much improved, but so are you as a breeder, perhaps within that your eye. Might you be a wee bit partial to a stud twenty years ago who did really good for you then, when maybe you didn't half know then what you know now? Could someone be misremembering, or taking for granted some things bred away from that he may have embodied in some way?

Or, and ok now from pessimist to hardbutt laugh out loud, and I am NOT saying this about you personally, as I do know your Lab line - was rather taken aback when I realized who Toto "was"! But at any rate, here you have this breeder, and in twenty years time, they are using this old stud....don't they have a stud who is by that stage superior? silenced To be frankly honest, if I really liked a breeder and things were getting all set to go forward and I learned they were utilizing a dog from twenty years ago, I may well stop to wonder how good a breeder could they be, if this is about improving each generation, to here we are many generations later and he's still of that sort of value, to where he would be the selection over many generations of improvement?

Onyx, some animals really do seem to throw themselves, and I think if your dog's sire is that sort, then you have stronger odds!
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» There has since been 4 posts. Last posting by Edward, Fri 6:00 pm


Choosing the Right Dog > Using the sperm of deceased dogs

Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue May 14, '13 9:58am PST 
Ha! That's one of my issues. What an odd thing to have a dog in both the first and seveneth generation? shrug I mean, heck if I know, but it's def naturally improbable to impossible. Then again, I have funk with horses birthed from surrogate dams. I think even as humans, some people embrace that and others struggle with the concept, just because it is against the "natural order."

And I still have to wonder about results, for a producer had results produced from his (or approximate) generation. Those genetics. Which can't really be replicated. There are plenty of dogs from ago I'd be interested in, but at the same time wouldn't kid myself of the chance to be akin to the dogs he was throwing back in the day comprehensively, for the dam side of those genetics would feature contributions that weren't around in his time, and weren't in play with his breedings.

I can see some help in a genetic strength the dog was known to offer, but I would not expect a chance more than a "typical" breeding to develop exceptional dogs, as half of any resultant offspring would come from modern influences. So I couldn't really expect something that mirrored what he was siring (save for dogs who seemed to mark their offspring like nuts).
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» There has since been 7 posts. Last posting by Edward, Fri 6:00 pm

Choosing the Right Dog > Using the sperm of deceased dogs
Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun May 12, '13 5:43pm PST 
So you are small, right? Then, fantasy realm here, if you have this stored sperm do you build off bitches who lacked his blood, or do you use bitches who had his blood? And then, how do you deal with the inevitable newer lines that have come since his generation that the bitch now holds....is that an experiment, or are you fairly confident in the result?

I remain hopelessly in love with a dog Tiller's breeder had in the 80/'90's who put the breed on the map. Look of eagles, won the national specialty, Annie Clark called him a goose pimple dog and they only took him off the campaign trail due to sabotage. His disposition was out of this WORLD. My next Giant I'd want to reflect him (as was true of my first), but his female family is still around as is the sire line, so my gut would to move back, vs forward.

What's the contribution, for someone like you? I know they used/continue to use the sperm of the immortal Crufts/Westminster Kerry Mick just because he was a perfect sire. Few are that, though. Isn't it so that for whatever a stud was, there was something you were using bitches to correct? So if so, you'd need to cherry pick that bitch carefully or you would be reintroducing weaknesses hopefully since bred away from?

Finally.....are you seeking to replicate him, or are you trying to modernize him?
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» There has since been 15 posts. Last posting by Edward, Fri 6:00 pm

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