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Dog Health > PetArmor for cats.. ok to use on dogs?



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Mon Oct 21, '13 3:35pm PST 
PetArmor appears to have the same "active ingredient" whether it's for dogs or cats. What I'm concerned about is whether the inactive ingredients might be toxic. To repeat my question, I'm wondering if I can use a PetArmor for Cats dose on my (larger) dog. Anyone who knows for sure one way or the other--I'd appreciate some insight. Thanks!
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by , Oct 21 4:41 pm

Dog Health > PetArmor for cats.. ok to use on dogs?


Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Sun Oct 20, '13 1:50pm PST 
I have 2 extra pipettes. I've read that Frontline for dogs and cats is the same thing. I'm wondering if the same is true of PetArmor.

I'm not going to use it on my dog unless I think it's safe. If anyone knows for sure I'd appreciate it!
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» There has since been 3 posts. Last posting by , Oct 21 4:41 pm


Food & Nutrition > Can My Dog Eat This Cat Food?



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Sun Mar 24, '13 6:15pm PST 
I got a cat food that might not be working out and I'm wondering if its ok to feed it to the dog. The brand is "Diamond Naturals Indoor for Hairball Control".

Anything bad for a dog in the ingredients?

Ingredients

Chicken, chicken meal, cracked pearled barley, whole grain brown rice, powdered cellulose, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), flaxseed, natural chicken flavor, egg product, fish meal, sodium bisulfate, choline chloride, dried chicory root, methionine, potassium chloride, taurine, L-carnitine, yucca schidigera extract, zinc proteinate, vitamin E supplement, niacin, manganese proteinate, copper proteinate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate, copper sulfate, thiamine mononitrate, vitamin A supplement, biotin, potassium iodide, calcium pantothenate, riboflavin, pyridoxine hydrochloride (vitamin B6), vitamin B12 supplement, manganous oxide, sodium selenite, vitamin D supplement, folic acid.

Crude Protein Minimum32.00%
Crude Fat Minimum14.00%
Crude Fiber Maximum8.00%
Moisture Maximum10.00%
Ash Maximum6.50%
Taurine Minimum0.10%
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» There has since been 4 posts. Last posting by Jackson Tan, Mar 25 9:52 pm


Raw Food Diet > Tons of Questions about Raw!



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 20, '13 9:58am PST 
Bullie--thanks for another great helpful response!

"I follow the Prey-Model Raw plan. I made my feeding regimen very simple by going with whole prey. For example, when I feed chicken, I feed the WHOLE chicken - including the gizzards/heart/liver that comes in a little baggie stuffed inside the whole chicken in most grocery stores and I even get the chicken feet with it. This way, the nutrition is balanced. I also feed whole rabbit except I take out the fur because I can make use of the fur to make Christmas presents. I feed the rabbit with the innards. I get my rabbit from the same place I get my rats to feed my kids' pet snakes."

I see. Well, I'll need a big freezer. I guess I'll need a really sharp knive too! So I cut the chicken up into meals, then freeze the portions into baggies?

"Of course, I can't feed the whole pig or the whole cow. So for pork, I get the pork shoulder because I can get those for cheap at the local butcher. And for beef, I get the beef hearts which I can also get for cheap at the butcher. I get beef liver and beef kidney from either the grocery or the butcher - getting it from the butcher requires a bulk buy. Sometimes the butcher has beef spleen so I get those when they're available. Then I get green tripe from the raw feeders co-op. Then usually, I get the canned salmon from the grocery next to the tuna if I don't see any fish on sale. Then, occasionally, I'll add an egg in there - the whole egg complete with egg shells."

Here's another question for you...can you feed eggs as a whole meal? It would seem logical, but I don't see feeding plans reccomending this.

Is the tripe necessary? Not sure Nibbles would like that.

Salmon is a little expensive for pet food on my budget. There is fairly cheap talapia, catfish and sardines at my local grocery though....do you think these are ok for dogs and/or cats?

"
This is what I got last week:
Walmart:
Chicken Gizzards - 99cents a pound
Chicken leg quarters - $6.95/10lb bag
Wild Caught Salmon (in the freezer section) - $3.95/lb

Butcher:
Beef hearts - 99cents a pound for a 60lb case (this will last me a looooong time)
Pork shoulder - 99cents a pound
(an 8lb shoulder gives 7-lb meat and 1-lb bone. I don't give the bone as a meal - I give it to the dogs as a chew toy).
Whole chicken (with innards) - 99cents a pound
Beef liver/kidney - $1.49/lb

Co-op:
Green tripe - $1.69/lb (including the shipping/handling fee to get the tripe from New York to the lady who runs the co-op)"

Thanks so much....sample menus are very helpful! That's 3 different kinds of meat in one week. No doubt that Nibbles would really enjoy that diet!
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» There has since been 4 posts. Last posting by Bullie, Mar 20 3:27 pm


Raw Food Diet > Tons of Questions about Raw!



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 20, '13 9:45am PST 
"A very talented dogster made up a spreadsheet that included the nutrients dogs need. You can enter your dog's details to find out how much of what your dog needs Here is the thread where the link is posted. Chicken is very low in a number of key nutrients. I know when Max gets what he needs according to that spreadsheet he is better off. It is based on NRC requirements.
http://www.dogster.com/forums/Raw_Food_Diet/thread/49 1589 "

Thanks for this. I understand the first part of the spreadsheet, but I'm not sure I understand the 2nd. It wants me to input a value for the dog's activity level and I'm not sure what value that should be. Nibbles is about 6-7 yrs old, fairly laid-back (not sure about the breed but in dimension she's around the size of a black lab and has some lab characteristics), but I exercise her daily and there is a yard for her to run around and bark at squirrels, chase the cat etc. Around 50 lbs (slightly chunky atm from the kibble).

I'm thinking 1.25-1.5 lbs a day of meat? Her previous diet (before kibble) was about .8-.9 lb a day of meat plus about 1 lb in oatmeal. With kibble, it's about 20 oz of kibble (in a beaker not weighed) plus scraps from my food and carrots. So it seems like she'll eat less food overall with an all-meat diet. Hopefully 1.5 lb will be sufficient or too much.

I also have an adolescent cat/kitten, closer to 5 lb than 10 lb....if I go all meat with the cat as well, what's the max % to give out (for a growing cat)? I'm guessing the cat can consume 6 oz of meat a day no problem....in fact he just ate about 3.5 oz of tuna and will likely be hungry again tonight. Yet according to those ratios if he's 5 lbs his food intake shouldn't exceed 4 oz a day? I guess I need to get a more accurate weight on this cat.

Thanks again for the spreadsheet--it's saved on my hard drive!
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» There has since been 6 posts. Last posting by Bullie, Mar 20 3:27 pm

Raw Food Diet > Tons of Questions about Raw!


Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Wed Mar 20, '13 9:30am PST 
Thanks so much for the helpful responses...

Some conclusions I've made so far

1) I need a fridge with plenty of freezer space!
2) I need to have liver...looks like about .5 lb a week.
3) I'm going to look at my supermarket and see about brains & kidneys etc.
4) Thanks for the tip on beef hearts! I've heard those are good for the cat too.

What'd I'd like some more opinions on.

-Feeding raw pork is ok? One of my friends says this is a no-no so I'd like some more confirmation if she's wrong. Is pork ok for the cat too?
-If I understand it correctly.... I can get by with pork/beef/turkey/chicken and a little fish? All those aren't hard to get ahold of, though it sounds expensive to feed my dog raw beef. Any link to an inexpensive source of rabbit in the DFW area would be appreciated.
-After livers, are kidneys considered the most important organ(2.5%)?
-Are gizzards and hearts muscle meals or should these only be 5% or less of the diet? Or both?
-Flaxseed and/or fish oil? Which is better for dogs and cats? If I don't feed fish reguarly, is it necessary?
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» There has since been 7 posts. Last posting by Bullie, Mar 20 3:27 pm


Raw Food Diet > Tons of Questions about Raw!



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 19, '13 6:19pm PST 
Thanks for the reply! Can't seem to figure out the html here so I'll use quotes for now.

"I prefer to avoid grains entirely and went with low-glycemic legumes instead. Carbs can also help keep weight on extremely active working dogs."

Interesting. Are lentils/beans/peas/sweet potatoes in that category? Nibbles does love beans, but I thought her protein should come from animal sources.

"Chicken and oatmeal is an inherently flawed diet. Supplementation can't fix it."

Yikes! Is the problem lack of variety of meats, or not feeding whole chickens, or both?

"I personally wouldn't pay more than 70 cents/lb for chicken. If you really want to get each part of the chicken in your diet, buy whole chickens instead of individual parts.
If you're in the grocery store, ground beef isn't so great either... Look for sales on pot roasts, shoulder steaks, and whole beef chuck. Typically you can get them $3/lb and they aren't so processed."

Thanks, great info. I guess I need a grinder or butcher's knives! In fact I think I'm going to go see what the La Michoacana has tomorrow.

So you have no qualms about feeding raw pork to your dog? If pork is ok, I'll take a closer look at that section.

"Variation is less important than balance. You can not balance a diet without red meat."

Very interesting. Do you have a favored source that goes into more detail on this?

Thanks again. It's a lot of fun to learn about this stuff!
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» There has since been 14 posts. Last posting by Bullie, Mar 20 3:27 pm


Raw Food Diet > Tons of Questions about Raw!



Member Since
03/19/2013
 
 
Barked: Tue Mar 19, '13 4:32pm PST 
Ok here goes. Thanks in advance!

I currently care for a dog and a cat and would like to raw feed both.

Let's start with the dog. At present, my fridge is broken, so I've been feeding a kibble frown . It's called Victor beef kibble.

http://www.victordogfood.com/

I'm thinking of switching to the Costco Kirkland brand instead, which I can get for about the same amount of money. The Kirkland might have slightly better ingredients but isn't local and comes from Costco. Is there another good dry kibble I should be thinking about buying?

Now on to raw. Nibbles was previously fed about 2 helping scoops of oatmeal in the morning, and 2 drumsticks at night. I continued to feed her this diet when i first started caring for her. Now I realize it may be incomplete.

Eventually I switched to a "natural" ground chicken raw pet food from a company called Fran's Fryer's, which came at a bargain price of 99c a lb. This food is made from chicken and chicken bone. But no organs.

I live close to a supermarket so after feeding Nibbles kibble for a while (after the fridge broke), I realized I can still feed her raw by buying meat daily from the market. As a consequence, I've been buying more small packages of chicken necks and chicken gizzards which I can get a good deal on. Or I can just buy a leg quarter for Nibbles at about 1.30$ lb.

Some may be wondering why I haven't gotten a new fridge. I will of course....but frankly I've been enjoying the benefits to my own health(serious weight loss and increased energy) from not having so much dairy around lol!

ok now on to my questions...

-Nibbles is no more than 50 lbs. So theoretically, she only needs 1 lb of meat per day? Really? If I go back to the raw regimen, should I cut out the oatmeal?

-If I was using the legs and oatmeal diet (as some of my friends continue to do), how would you best supplement it? Fish oil? Liver? I can get those, but chicken hearts, brains, etc are harder to find.

-How would you supplement the ground chicken/bone food source (besides the liver and fish oil)?

-Can I give too much bone/calcium? I've fed necks alot lately cause I've got a cat who also likes them. I imagine feeding chicken legs as the meat source runs into the same issue.

-Can I feed gizzards as a meal? I can't find any info online on whether too many gizzards can be hazardous.

-I've read that the organs should come from the same meat source? Is that scripture around here, or is that contested?

-What is likely more bang for my buck---ground beef chuck at 4$ a lb or chicken tenderloin at 2.80 lb?

-How important is it to feed more than one meat? Does one of the sources need to be red meat?

-What is the conventional wisdom on feeding oatmeal and rice as a supplement to the meat?

-I give Nibbles an average of 1 carrot a day, sometimes 2. She occasionally gets a little lettuce. What other vegetables should she be getting?

Ok that's plenty for the first post. Heartfelt thanks in advance to anyone who read all that!
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» There has since been 16 posts. Last posting by Bullie, Mar 20 3:27 pm

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