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Home Prepared Food & Recipes > Recipe for Calcium Oxalates?
Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 20, '14 7:53pm PST 
Without analyzing this it looks like a great plan. Don't add fish oil and E before hand though, add daily or as seldom as a couple times a week depending on what works for the supplements you have found. B is supposed to taste nasty so better to feed as a pill/capsule and it is best offered daily.

The article in dogaware reports that another strategy is to raise pH of urine with potassium citrate but Leslie Bean reports that nothing changed her dogs' urine pH. What is Zoey's normal urine pH? I am sure you have seen this article but for completeness here is the link.
http://dogaware.com/articles/wdjcalciumoxalates.html#oxalates

Max was delighted to get to eat rice again, cooked food isn't all bad he says. He didn't much like having tummy aches all night long either and that is better now. I don't have any idea why he started with that, just going with what works for a 14 year old dog.
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» There has since been 2 posts. Last posting by Zoey, Sun 10:16 pm

Raw Food Diet > Calcium Oxalate Crystals on Raw
Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 20, '14 7:26am PST 
Producing oxalate crystals is a metabolic fault, if your dog is going to produce them there will be there some produced even though it seems there are zero oxalates going into the dog. Feeding a super low oxalate diet like raw meat/bone/organ is definitely the way to go. Making sure plenty of water gets into the dog and providing lots of opportunities to void the bladder so crystals don't have a chance to form is the only thing I do.

Well, no. I also have the vet spin fresh urine to be sure crystals aren't forming because the urine is stale! I guess the scare I got was a good thing, now that Max is on cooked food I know to avoid higher oxalate foods. White rice rather than oatmeal or brown rice, squash and cabbage rather than carrots and celery and so on but when he was on raw I didn't see any way I could possibly improve things other than make sure he drank and urinated often.

Number one thing you can do is force fluids and double up on the potty trips. I haven't researched this to find a good source for this so this is hearsay but a poster on a yahoo list wrote that stones start forming within a couple hours so voiding the bladder at least that often should nearly eliminate risk of stones. I don't know about stones forming but obviously crystals form that fast. Since your dog is really susceptible to all sorts of crystals you are going to have to make this part of your lifestyle. Possibly there is a malformation of part of the urinary tract that is allowing urine to pool? Possibly your dog doesn't drink enough water? Max is fine so far but Sassy just didn't drink much. Adding water to her meals helped a lot. Don't know why it was easier for her to drink from a meal bowl rather than water bowl but that was what worked for her.
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by Zoey, Sun 10:26 am


Raw Food Diet > puppy on raw diet for a week, tonight stool dark tar colored.

Ginger

1301762
 
 
Barked: Fri Apr 18, '14 10:11am PST 
It wasn't bloody stool, it was iron rich stool. The reason stool from internal bleeding is dark and tarry is from the iron, the reason stool from too much organ is dark and tarry is from the iron. If you hadn't been feeding any organ at all and the stool was tarry then there might have been a problem.

If you overfeed then he is going to continue to have loose stool. It is completely normal and irritating dog behavior to want more food. Right now you have apparently lost your mind and are giving super good food but tomorrow could be another matter so better get it while the getting is good is his thinking.

I feed according to body condition which is killing me with Ginger. There is still a little too much 15 pound adult Ginger and the tiny amount I have to give her doesn't seem enough to feed a mouse. Just now I can tell she has two shoulder blades rather than one - when I got her she didn't have shoulder blades at all. Still waiting on the hip bones, apparently they have no bumps but at least I can tell there is bone there now. Check her profile, she doesn't look overweight at all either. She gets 4 ounces of food in meals and an ounce of food as treats. 2 ounces is smaller than an egg sized lump. Poor me, poor her. I have given her whole prey chicken complete with feathers and she can polish off half a 3.5 pound one in a 90 minute gorge and finish it off the next day. This type of overfeeding isn't so bad for her diet as that 90 minutes is a really busy 90 minutes and these chickens are lean layers rather than fattened up fryers.

He also could be acting super hungry as the low amount of bone is making the chicken race through his body. Feed more bone, take off the fatty skin and feed the proper amount so his gut can process this properly and add back the skin as his poop improves and it will. 3% of 30 pounds is 14.4 ounces, keep that as your high mark unless you see him get really lanky. I know it isn't easy to see a pup look skinny but growing slow and lean is much better for them in the long run. I am sure you are going to get comments just because he doesn't have the cute round puppy kibble gut.

I didn't much care for the way Max acted with chicken long bones in the beginning and preferred to feed ribs and backbone at first, peanut brittle crunches rather than ice cube crunching sounds but most dogs do just fine with thigh bones. Remember these are from 8 week old fryers, not 2-3 year old stewers and they are much less calcified and softer.
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by Kahirah, Ch., Fri 1:41 pm


Raw Food Diet > puppy on raw diet for a week, tonight stool dark tar colored.

Ginger

1301762
 
 
Barked: Thu Apr 17, '14 9:31am PST 
Kidney is organ and too much organ causes dark slimy poop. How much kidney did you give him? For a whole week a grown up JRT might need all of 3.5 ounces of organ for example. Half of that needs to be liver and half other organ such as kidney, brain, spleen, thymus, pancreas. That is for later, much later.

We don't usually have access to poultry kidneys on their own so don't know what poop resulting from a meal of that would look like but beef, pork and lamb kidneys are pretty high in mineral content and that causes the dark color.

Go back to plain bony chicken. If you gave him the boneless breast because his poop was too firm then give him breast with some ribs in it. If poop is too soft then give the backbone along with the breast and ribs for the following day. Measure it carefully or he will want to eat too much and will have loose poop for that reason. Once you can predict what good quality poop comes from what bit of a bony chicken then move to the next protein substituting a bite of that new meat for a bite of the chicken, one more every day if things are going well.

It is pretty easy to get into a horrible feedback loop when starting raw feeding. Ginger gets too much bone, I don't feed bone but I also don't feed lots of liver. A few meals of boneless meat and things are better. A dark nasty poop, dog doesn't need organ for a few days and next time feed 1/2 that amount along with bony meat. Mucousy poop, cut off skin and obvious fat for a few days and gradually leave some on. THAT meal wasn't suitable, don't feed it again for a while, modify so there is a better amount of fat, organ, bone, quantity.
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» There has since been 4 posts. Last posting by Kahirah, Ch., Fri 1:41 pm


Dog Health > Last hope for our dear lab Rio

Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 15, '14 6:24pm PST 
How very very sad.

hug

If it is acute and you are sure it wasn't infectious doesn't that leave poisoning? Antifreeze maybe? I thought the treatment for that was to continue the fluids until things improve which can take weeks. I gave Sassy subcutaneous fluids for a couple years, perhaps you could get a lesson from the vet and do it at home? If her values go up again after she is off fluids then she does need to keep them up.

Poke around dogaware, there is an article on inappetence, not eating as well as all the valuable information on kidney dogs. Perhaps there is something in there you haven't yet thought to do.

I wonder if simply syringe feeding for a few days would get her gut comfortable with food in it. Puree canned dog food, use meaty baby food with no onion, canned green tripe, puree up some pizza.... I know when I had a tummy upset starting to eat again was very difficult. I sat with a timer next to me and took a sip of water or a tiny bite of cracker every 5 minutes. Tedious but it worked until I got sick of doing that and rushed things. Actually I would cook up mushy white rice and skinned chicken breast with some salty broth and puree that, more likely to be easy on the stomach. Ania wrote in the home cooking forum a while back that a mixture of equal parts potato, sweet potato and turnip is easier on the stomach than rice, could try it.

When Max has a tummy ache and I give him slippery elm bark I dab some on his nose, he licks it off and considers whether it makes him feel better or worse. So far he has decided it makes things better and will lick up a little after his little trial. So do try to let her decide if the food works or not as well. Tiny tiny amounts very often.

Please don't give up even if she isn't eating today or tomorrow. Max has some tumors and goes horribly lame every so often and we think this is the end then the next day he greets us at the door with toy in his mouth and a wagging tail. Quite the rollercoaster ride he is taking us on let me tell you. He is 14 and even though I think he needs to stay with me another 14 years it is okay if his time is near unlike your sweet girl. 5 is far too young!
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» There has since been 5 posts. Last posting by Wesley, Fri 3:10 pm

Raw Food Diet > 10 week old Dalmatian raw diet question
Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Apr 12, '14 10:02am PST 
That's great. Glad it was just a momentary problem. I get worried when adult dogs miss a meal, must be really alarming when a new pup does it!
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» There has since been 3 posts. Last posting by Ember FDX, Apr 14 5:39 am


Raw Food Diet > 10 week old Dalmatian raw diet question

Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Fri Apr 11, '14 11:29am PST 
I'd be feeding super easy bone like ribs and backs and taking the fatty skin off. Feed more meals per day too. Until his gut settles I would keep things as uniform as possible and be sure the bony stuff is large enough that he chomps it enough to get the stomach juices into it so it can be more easily digested.

Easiest way for me to get this sort of thing would be to buy bone in chicken breasts, pull off the skin and cut to size. I probably would cut off some meat as chicken breast is pretty low in bone for a new to raw dog. For a baby dog I might pop out the breast's keel bone too.

Ginger has an iron gut but Max did poorly on long chicken bones for quite a while, perhaps stick to the ribs and vertebrae for a while. Not sure if he didn't chomp them long enough or they are harder to break down.

If he is reluctant consider whether his tummy is still hurting or is he afraid to eat because it made his tummy hurt. Big difference. If he is afraid you could sear the outside of the meat so it smells different and once he gets going he will be fine. If his tummy actually hurts then I would cook chicken breast and feed him just the ground or chopped meat for a few meals. Mix with 1/2 tsp of powdered eggshell per pound of raw meat for calcium and possibly add 25% pureed veggies as stool firmer. Not a good idea to do this for more than a few days of course.

Be sure he is well hydrated. All the meal refusing and vomiting can cause serious problems in very short order! Maybe at the very least be offering meaty broth or meat broth jello.
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» There has since been 5 posts. Last posting by Ember FDX, Apr 14 5:39 am


Raw Food Diet > beef fat, chicken fat, rabbit fat, goat fat, sheep fat, (pretty much fat)

Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Thu Apr 10, '14 7:37am PST 
A boneless meat day does the same thing without as great a risk of blow out gut. This sounds like his version of colon cleanse.

I haven't ever completely fasted Max but if you feed gorge meals the dogs may not want food the following day. I wouldn't fast if they have been eating normal sized meals. Feeding more or less every day is fine for most dogs, not all. You may see bile vomits, gas, dogs not able to settle due to upset tummies and such. I wouldn't work through it, I would go back to what works and move slower if you must.

His ideas may or may not work for any or all of the dogs. Please don't jump into it, go slow to see what works and what doesn't work for whichever dog.

Hope your dogs give you really good cues they need to get outside if you do this!
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» There has since been 1 post. Last posting by Raine, Apr 11 6:04 am


Raw Food Diet > beef fat, chicken fat, rabbit fat, goat fat, sheep fat, (pretty much fat)

Ginger

1301762
 
 
Barked: Wed Apr 9, '14 11:36pm PST 
Fat is good. Max's coat only looked good once he got nice fresh fat rather than rendered miserly amounts of fat from kibble.

If I fed fat the way you are planning to my dogs would have loose stool and gas plus either I would be protein starving them to keep weight where it needs to be or they would get seriously fat. It is hard to feed low fat raw, Max's model diet is 60% calories from fat with fat trimmed.

If your dogs are working hard in cold weather and you cannot keep weight on them then try more fat but don't just feed loads of fat. And if you add extra fat to the diet feed just a little at first and increase a little at a time. I would rather feed to a tipping point where backing off will stop the problem than risk a horrible upset that could take a while to get over.
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» There has since been 3 posts. Last posting by Raine, Apr 11 6:04 am

Raw Food Diet > beef fat, chicken fat, rabbit fat, goat fat, sheep fat, (pretty much fat)
Ginger

1301762
 
 
Barked: Tue Apr 8, '14 7:55pm PST 
Don't we all!

I worked hard Max's second summer on raw to get to boneless days. He conveniently gets 10 ounces a day and it turned out that feeding 12 ounces of bony meat/organ/more meat if needed one day and 8 ounces of plain meat the day after worked for him.

Ginger has a pretty tough gut. She will have loose stool and gas if she gets meat and organ 2 days after a bony meal is all. So she gets a bony meal with organ, meat with organ the next day and meat only and another day of boneless if poop is too firm still.

If I needed to feed fat for whatever reason I would give it plus organ with the bony meal and on the other days feed normally fat meat but you are watching the poop, gas and so on and that is what counts.
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» There has since been 5 posts. Last posting by Raine, Apr 11 6:04 am

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