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Coat Color - Breed Standard?

This is a forum for bonding with your fellow Dogsters about the traits, quirks and idiosyncrasies of your favorite breed. Please remember that there are absolutely no animal sales or requests for studding or breeding allowed on our sites. All posts and interactions should be in the spirit of Dogster's Community Guidelines and should be fun, friendly and informational. Enjoy!

  
Sally

House Lamb!

moderator		 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 14, '08 12:12pm PST 
I'm just curious about something.

My new rescued Standard Poodle, Sally, looks like a silver or gray poodle, but she has quite a large, distinct patch of pure white on her chest. (You can't see it in the pics on her page, unfortunately.)

I was reading the breed standard and it says that parti-colors are disqualifying. This would be parti-color, is that correct?

I'm pretty sure Sally came from a puppy mill or at least a very disreputable breeder, and she has CKC papers. So, another question: does the parti-color coat mean that she is probably not a purebred poodle at all, but something else sneaked into her genetic line at some point? Or is it just a result of breeding two different colored purebred poodles, in some way that you're not supposed to?

Thanks everyone!!
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Ollivander

Super Silver- Service Spoodle
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 14, '08 4:13pm PST 
Gio/Romeo's mom works in a dog coat color genetics lab. Here is the lab webpage about poodle coat color genetics:

http://homepage.usask.ca/~schmutz/poodle.html

Though I have to say that the breeders I talked to and pedigrees I looked at don't always match up. I think there are probably some other undiscovered genes, or the genes may be working together to produce different coat colors.

Also, parti colored poodles may be a DQ for AKC events, but they are an acceptable color for UKC, and also in Europe I believe.

Regardless, the white patch doesn't mean your pup isn't pure poodle! And it is probably also not a result of being a parti-color poodle (partis tend to have more pie-bald type of spotting). When the puppy is an embryo, the pigmented skin cells start out on the spinal cord of the dog. These cells divide and spread around the embryo, reaching the chest and toes last. If these pigmented cells haven't reached all the way around the dog, then they will have white toes or a white patch on their chest. My other pup Sabrina is a good example of this, most of her toes have just the tip white, and she has a white splotch on her chest.

Basically, this incomplete movement of pigmented skin cells is not usually genetic, so it theoretically could happen in any line of poodle, from excellent breeders to the worst puppy mills.

Edited by author Sun Sep 14, '08 4:15pm PST

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Sally

House Lamb!

moderator		 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 14, '08 7:23pm PST 
Thanks Olivander!! You & Sally do look so similar!!! As in, GORGEOUS!!!

I know Gio is the resident expert on these things! Maybe I will contact them for more info!!

Of course all this has no bearing on how I am totally smitten with Sally!!! I could care less if she is purebred or if she's from a puppy mill!!! To me she is perfect!!!!!

cloud 9

It's just curiosity about the coat color. Thanks again for the insight!!
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Ollivander

Super Silver- Service Spoodle
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 14, '08 8:25pm PST 
He he, silvers rule!

BTW, are you sure of her birthday? She looks younger than 8 months to me-- judging solely on how much of her body is silver. She's got about as much silver in her coat as Ollie does, and he's only 5 months. But I'm no expert on these things-- Ollie is the first poodle I've ever owned!
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Tallulah

I pretty much- will rule the- universe.		 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 15, '08 7:47am PST 
Tallulah (she is a toy obviously) is absolutely a 100% poodle and she has a white patch on her chest and a few white toes. Sometimes you will see this called a "tuxedo" but its really a mismark, and i think different form just being a parti poodle with not much white. ( I actually think she is a blue, not a black but that's another story lol. ) Personally I think its ridiculous when something as superficial as patches of color makes a dog not meet some standard, and temperment and conformation and soundness should really be what matters. Anyhow..

Parti color poodles have been around since the beginning , but at some point for whatever reason, it was decided at least by AKC to eliminate the coat patterns like phantom and parti, which is a HUGE shame, IMO.
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Ollivander

Super Silver- Service Spoodle
 
 
Barked: Tue Sep 16, '08 7:29am PST 
I am by no means an expert Tallulah, but it seems like you could be a blue from your pictures-- whatever color you are, you surely are cute!
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Chloe

948543		 
 
Barked: Fri Jan 23, '09 12:17pm PST 
The white on the chest is a mismark not a parti. Also parti poodles are purebred poodles and can be shown with Canadian Kennel Club and UKC. I was just reading AKC's breed standard and it's very misleading about partis. What they are trying to say is that they consider parti colors a fault. You can go to Arpeggio Poodles for a ton of coat color info.
http://arpeggiopoodles.tripod.com/poodlecoatcolors.html
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Sambo Boy

Sambo..Baby Boy!		 
 
Barked: Fri Jan 23, '09 5:06pm PST 
She is just beautiful. You found a real jewel. What a sweeheart and lucky gal.
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Jiggs

I'm a- parti-boy!
 
 
Barked: Mon May 25, '09 5:13pm PST 
I am an example of a parti poodle- we must be at least 50% white and any other color.
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POSH ( CGC- )

Yes, I am this- Purdy in the- morning		 
 
Barked: Mon Jul 27, '09 6:21pm PST 
Hello,

I am a parti-poodle, and my mommy specifically wanted me that way. We are all poodle, and the original poodles did have color. You have a mismark, but that is great two.

go to JEPooldes in Ohio on the web, and they have a lot of info on there.
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