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White Shiba Inus

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Mia

Little Monster
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 10:42am PST 
Not that it matters much now, but I'm just curious what other people know or think about white Shiba Inus. I know that they are not recognized by any major kennel clubs. "They may also be cream, though this color is considered a "major fault" and should never be intentionally bred in a show dog, as the required markings known as "urajiro" are not visible." -Wiki
Why is this a major fault?! I have a white one, perfectly healthy. When I was looking for one, I was told by a few breaders, that responsible breeder will not breed 2 whites or any 2 dogs that produce white offspring. Is this for health reasons??
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Okami- Amaterasu

I shalst- pluck-eth ze- toy...
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 2:36pm PST 
Yes it does partially have to do with health issues. The white or cream color comes from a series of recessive genes which can be associated with health problems. That doesn't mean that a cream shiba will have problems, only that if someone kept breeding cream shibas together it could cause some major health issues. Cream shibas are otherwise randomly born that color.

Although that doesn't stop them from being so darn cute big grin. I hope to have one myself some day happy dance
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Tobi

1203272
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 3:09pm PST 
I know when I first started looking at shibas I really wanted a red because I thought it was so cute. But after meeting with a breeder and seeing Tobi the lone cream in the litter I had second thoughts. He just stood out to me more and his personality was awesome. I still would like to get a red or black and tan in the future, but I wouldn't trade Tobi for anything. So I won't be showing him because the major kennel clubs consider him a fault but oh well....Plus I think Tobi is too stuck up for shows.
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Saya

I want to play!
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 8:01pm PST 
No urajiro is a reason, health might be too, but cream shiba inu are coarse healthy, but purposely breeding cream, pinto, red headed B&T etc. is not good for many reasons.

I seen a thread on this and it explained a lot on this.

It also could be because red, sesame, and B&T are the normal shiba colors. white boxer and off marked boxers aren't allowed to show.. White boxers tend to be deaf, but not sure exactly how common it is. Bella and Pearly our white boxer are not deaf and lived relatively healthy..

One reason could be coat quaility some say cream shiba coat tend to be a bit different, but coarse could be due to the breeder not breeding to the standard so the coat is different.

Creams do pop up in show breeders I know of one and she loves her pups no matter what and she makes sure the creams get into great pet homes and she will refuse to sell a pup if she feels this owner is not up for a shiba inu..

Could be because there's alread white or cream coloring in kishu and Hokkaido so one would want some distinction with the breeds? I dunno..

Kishu actually used to have other colors other then white and the colored kishu are very nice looking, but due toe white being more sought out you don't see it often something like that..

Nothing wrong with creams like there's nothing wrong with pinto or long hairs, but I wouldn't purposely breed two creams to produce more or breed a pinto with cream or red head B&T and a cream..

Lot of bad breeders I know breed that way and they also have tons of puppies at a time and over breed the mom..

Coarse cream do pop up, but they're not end of the world luckily we live in today's world so the cream will get a lovely pet home.

White boxers used to be culled..

I think UKC or CKC allows creams forgot which..

It's not part of the Japanese standard of a shiba inu..

I don't hate creams I've met a few and they're cute shiba inu Saya thought so and played with one.
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Mia

Little Monster
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 9:32pm PST 
Thanks for the thoughts. I really wanted a cream b/c growning up I had a white male Akita and a fawn female. I love that look. And Mia is just perfect!! She's got the cutest red freckles on her arms, and her ears look toasted. And her tail...I've never seen another Shiba with such a curly tail, it's our favorite trait!! Coat color aside, I think it takes a very special person to own a Shiba. She is a handful, and I'd love to get her a brother or sister but right now I can only handle her! I think we may end up adopted another in a year or two.
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Kaida

Official Shiba- Squirrel Tracker
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 10:04pm PST 
Aside from the genetics, a breeder should NEVER intentionally breed creams because they are not accepted standard variety. Unless the color is working toward a show standard it should never be bred.

Creams are considered faults because you can't see the distinct Urajo (spelled??) which is one of the shiba characteristics. If you're not sure what that is referring to, check out Saya. She has one of the best defined ones I have seen. Kaida wasn't show quality and the only reason the breeder didn't keep her for herself ( she loved her build and frame) was because her coloring and markings weren't what you want in a breeder/show dog.
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Saya

I want to play!
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 4, '11 10:23pm PST 
Here's shiba wiki page the B&T shiba on it is actually Saya it's amazing how a professional photographer can make her look so good! laugh out loud
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shiba_Inu

I love creams if I had one I'd name him/her Luna, shiro, or Ammy for Amaterasu. Who knows I might add a cream rescue to my pack..

Coarse right now adding two or three dogs isn't ideal.

I think it's good to wait to add a second dog gives time to train your puppy and work on socialization and all that and by the time your ready your current dog is trained and knows not to chew on things etc.

Getting two dogs as puppies at same time can be great, but it has it's disadvantages too. twice the mischief.

Bella our boxer is my parent's dog, but I mainly take care of her, but we got her first then Saya.

Creams are cute kinda like polar bear cubs as pups and then like arctic fox as adults.. lol
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Nami

I'm just a- little cutie.
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 5, '11 10:41am PST 
Thank goodness for faults. They made me the beautiful Shiba that I am today. Daddy likes to call me his Sesame Cream Shiba, because of the red on my ears and hind legs and the red tipping on my coat. My mom and dad were both red, but they had two red and two cream puppies. The AKC will allow us to compete at the junior level from what dad has read, but not beyond that. I'm a little insulted how we are treated. As far as I know, our coloring occurred in nature unlike most breeds in the AKC. Most dogs were developed through breeding programs to get a dog by design. Where do you draw the line? To be excluded from competition because someone is too lazy to come up with standards or us, is ridiculous. We should be able to compete by confirmation, not color. Are white Akita's banned from competition?

I would like to see proof that Cream Shibas have any more health problems then any other color. From what I've seen after being on this forum for 3+ years, the problems happen with all the colors. I think it's because of poor breading practices and not color based. Maybe we need an in depth study. Anybody up for that?
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M.RY's- Utsukushii- At Pinnacle

Proud Heritage- Shows, NIPPO- Shiba Inu
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 5, '11 12:02pm PST 
Nami,

The only reason Cream isn’t allowed is because of breeding. Dog shows are for evaluating breeding stock and it is not a wise choice to breed two creams together because of the “risk” so thats why they are not allowed because they don’t want to fuel people breeding two white dogs and risking health.

With my shelties a white dog is produced when two merles are mated (considered a dangerous breeding because the litter could be predominantly white or Color headed white deaf and blind) the predominantly white dog is known as a double merle having two merle genes, it is said a dog like this cannot hear because of “white” around the ears and cannot see also because of “white” around the eyes. This can happen but is a rarity. Often times these white dogs ARE the perfect dog (for whatever reason I have not figured this out) having superb angles and build the only thing wrong? They are white. I have come to find that a double merle in a sheltie breeding program can be an asset. Much like my favorite:

• Shadow Hill's Polaris ROM
http://www.shadowhillshelties.com/shelties/boys/oreo.html

an d the up and coming boy that I have my eyes on Belmark Showdown

http://www.belmarkshelties.com/risingstars.htm

My Bi-blues dam was a double merle and he is one of the finest bi-blues I’ve seen next to NBISS/BIS/BISS CH. SEA HAVEN CHASING MOONBEAMS ROM CC

http://www.seahavenshelties.com/chasingmoonbeams.html

I have not done any breeding in Shibas yet so I wouldn’t know if the cream could be a breeding asset like they are in shelties. But that is the real reason they are not allowed to show is the risks involved with breeding them. To me they should be allowed as in my shelties this color of dog is valued by the reputable breeder and is that”once in a life time” breeding.
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Kaida

Official Shiba- Squirrel Tracker
 
 
Barked: Mon Sep 5, '11 9:54pm PST 
I am guessing they are allowed to compete up to a Jr. level because at that point all varieties are going through coat changes and coloration. Markings are important in the breed standard which is why a cream wouldn't be ideal because almost all of them it is impossible to see the right markings on. After all one of the distinguishing features of a shiba is the markings they possess. I am not convinced that creams have any more health related issues than any other colors have. I would guess if they were born blue eyed they might, because I have read a lot that blue eyed dogs are often deaf.
Thanks for your explanation about the Merle shelties... I know when I raised rabbits certain crosses were frowned upon because of the possible colors that may have appeared, or because it made the offspring which could be one color a carrier of a color you didn't want to pop up in a cross down the road. It had nothing to do with health, colors I don't feel affect health at all unless its true about some animals and the color having more of them deaf/blind or whatever. Sure wasn't true in rabbits! Whites with blue eyes were never death, just beautiful smile
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