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Help! Throwing up everything

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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Sat Aug 10, '13 5:43pm PST 
Alright so for those who've seen my posts before, y'all know I've struggled with raw: diarrhea, costs, eating etc. Well a month or so ago when Dante lost all his baby teeth, he stopped eating raw, so I put him on kibble. Offered raw a few times and he turned his nose up at it.

Now, the past three days, he has once again decided it's the best thing in the world. However, I guess it's from eating too fast, he IMMEDIATELY throws up his entire meal. Like finishes, walks away, 30 seconds later i'm cleaning up a pound of meat. Now after the first day, I assumed it was too fast so I left it mostly frozen the next day. Still immediately threw up. Hand fed frozen- threw up. Big chunks of a meat/bone chub, mostly frozen- threw up.

This morning was his third, so after it was thrown up, I quit and gave him kibble. Now he's been doing fine on kibble, beautiful coat, healthy, terrible smelling poops but eh. I just want raw because I know it's better.

So yeah tried the frozen, big chunks, hand feed, anyone have any advice that can get us over this? The first night he even threw up some of the chicken quarter, but leaving that mostly frozen, being so much bone, has worked. But obviously he can't survive on just bone in meals. Oh and it doesn't matter the amount, 1/2 pound or full pound, throws up
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Aug 10, '13 6:23pm PST 
What a goof! Doesn't he know he is scaring you and he might just end up only getting kibble?

What happens if you just leave him with his mess? What he is doing is regurgitating [aka redo]. A wild dog might gulp all he can, run away to a safe place, regurgitate the food and eat it again slowly. Parent dogs do this for the pups as a rule.

Max has had a couple of redos when he didn't chomp the food up sufficiently. He didn't much want to eat it again, food isn't supposed to act like that or something but I asked him to do so and he did in the end. It had been in his stomach [if it got that far] for only a couple minutes and he eats on the grass/dirt anyway, couldn't really be any dirty than it was when it went down the first time.
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Sat Aug 10, '13 6:41pm PST 
I know right? Silly pup is being offered the best there is, in every way I can think, and might end up with a rather boring diet naughty

I was going to mention that as well. The first day? he ate most of it back up. I'm cool with that, it's not poop and that's what wolf puppies do. However since then he hasn't. I go over with the cleaning stuff and he follows. I kneel down, kinda point talk nicely, try and encourage him to eat it.. Nope. And you're not kidding, it's been in him so short a time it's still cold when I bag it! Now granted I don't give him alot of time with it, as it's always on the carpet and I don't feel like letting it soak in. I considered feeding outside today but I'm also concerned that the puking could turn him off of it once again. Throwing up every meal has got to suck. Besides me absolutely having to get food in him today, as I've already had weight concerns.

But he's got about 2-3 days left of kibble and I really didn't want to go spend $125 on two bags of kibble if I could straighten this out without any more unpleasantness
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Aug 13, '13 11:53am PST 
Any ideas anybody? Tomorrow i would have to go for more kibble. My only other thought, is there any way the frozen meat itself is a problem? Like it being so cold and him eating it fast still? Like I said it's still cold when i'm picking it up off the floor. I dunno i'm grasping for straws at this point
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Rexy

I dig in mud- puddles!
 
 
Barked: Tue Aug 13, '13 12:45pm PST 
Wow, that must be really worrying and more than a little frustrating!

Have you tried feeding just one bite of room temperature meat and then waiting to see if it comes back up? I'm wondering if there is something about the temperature of the food that is not agreeing with him.

Also, what would happen if you fed a bit of raw mixed with canned? Maybe that would stay down and you can gradually increase the amount of raw until it's all raw again?

Rexy will regurg on occasion, but generally only if it's lung (weirdo!) or if she has eaten something much too quickly. Luckily, she almost always re-eats (unless it's lung or tripe). She also tends to regurg within 10 min of eating, not 30 seconds.
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Aug 13, '13 1:22pm PST 
Thanks Rexy big hug I may try that tomorrow, i'll actually have a little time to sit with him for breakfast instead of 4 am wake up. I'll sit outside and handfeed, see what happens.

He's never eaten canned before, besides needing to buy some, i'm not sure the difference?.. shrug The chubs i get, when defrosted and weighed into their bowl, is the most "regular" looking raw they get that looks more like commercial foods. I thought that would be the safe one, and while i did notice it looked more chewed in his regurg (or maybe just more mushy) it still came up. Any thoughts specifically on it being canned? Vs if i was desperate enough and around to clean up any diarrhea, going ahead and mixing a chub in with a cup of kibble? thinking

And funny on the lung, besides the two nights of chicken quarters, the only thing he kept down in that experience was 8oz of heart that I hand fed him after his throw up of his actual (original) breakfast. I know it's rich but it was the only thing left in the fridge and i felt terrible i knew he was hungry. But that was before work and i didn't come home to any in his crate so apparently that was the one success
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Rexy

I dig in mud- puddles!
 
 
Barked: Wed Aug 14, '13 11:51pm PST 
Dante, sorry about the confusion regarding canned...I only suggested that as as most people aren't comfortable mixing kibble and raw, and I doubt that you want to experiment with that right now and potentially add to your boy's digestive troubles!

You could also try stuffing ground meat into a kong, freezing it and then letting him slowly work away at it. It should take him a decent amount of time to get the food out that. If he still regurgs when he is taking his time eating, then I'm not sure what else to suggest...
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Thu Aug 15, '13 7:14am PST 
That is an excellent idea Rexy!

Takes out the hoovering over him that is possibly getting him a bit anxious when you hand feed. We don't mean to make them anxious but it is how they feel about it rather than our good intentions that matter here. I know I am giving the food to the dog but I do occasionally take things away too and this is far more important to them than most things we take away from them!

Try not freezing it too in case it is the extra cold food bothering him. Max cannot clean out a ground raw stuffed kong anyway. Try warming it in hot water for a few minutes as well. You can force the knobby ends of chicken into some kongs, maybe you have one that would work. That really slows Max down. It isn't just the extra weight, the balance is way off too.

There are plates with knobs on meant to make dogs eat kibble slowly, perhaps you could find something like that and force ground food between them. I can compress ground around a rimmed plate [aka pie pan] so Max has to work a bit to get it up and cannot hoover it in 4.3 seconds as he has done with fluffy ground in a pile. Perhaps you have a large muffin pan? Upside down it would look like a giant version on the knobby plate thing.
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Fri Aug 16, '13 11:28am PST 
Those are both great ideas, thanks Rexy and Max! way to go Here's where i'm at now, hope i'm not boring y'all too much yet.

That night I gave him chicken quarters, which he wasn't even keen to eat, but after sitting for maybe 3 minutes, went to them. He threw it up! Chicken quarters, which takes alot of work. Granted they weren't room temp, they had been defrosting in the sink for 3 hours while we were at the park, still had frozen spots. So I feel bad on that one. I may really be leaning towards the coldness of it now. Tho he likes ice cubes like any dog shrug

So i got two bags of kibble that should last well over a month. His interest in the raw was low again, go figure after puking every meal. So i thought i would give it a minimum of two weeks before attempting again. Now for the ideas..

That makes sense Rexy thanks. I knew/thought about the kong thing, my only complaint was they already get frozen peanut butter kongs, and it makes a mess of their blanket in the crate from rolling around. Would the meat not as well, and i would have to wash the blanket every time? Until I get a bigger one he can actually fit his tongue into laugh out loud I would leave it unfrozen anyway. But i'm the same way, if that still does it then i would come to the sad conclusion that for some reason his system no longer handles raw thinking

Max i know that is very common but he is actually the opposite for feeding. When he was younger, and the past month of very poor eating, he would only eat if i was standing right next to him, or holding his food bowl naughty I've weaned him mostly off of that, cuz that's just beyond ridiculous. However the next try for raw I believe will be outside to let him do as he will. And that's a pretty fantastic idea on the bowls. I've recommended them to several clients in the past, or a friend now that has a pit that was emaciated when he got him, I just never even thought to do it with the ground meat big laugh Thanks for that one. I'll steal the bowl from my friend for our next attempt.

This may sound silly, but for the room temperature issue. (Well fridge cuz I know he's fine with that.) I've always been very uncomfortable when the rarer occasions happen with me having to pop it in the microwave on defrost for 15-30 seconds. Is that silly? Can i defrost things with no alteration of the meat and nutrients? I just didn't want it to be half warm/cooked half raw, i don't know i was unsure about that. Whereas I know it is ok to refreeze the meats, didn't know about that one. And yet last night the duck/bone chub ended up sitting in the sink for about 8 hours cuz i didn't get up in the night to put it in the fridge. Which i imagine can't be too safe either confused
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Aug 20, '13 7:17am PST 
Success! For two meals! applausehappy dance He ate 8oz of a completely defrosted duck chub, in the slow feed bowl, then went on to eat a defrosted chicken quarter. Outside so he could throw it up anywhere he wanted lol. Then ate 1lb of the chub this morning, no issue cheer May give him a little in the new giant kong i bought him, but hopefully we are on the path back to raw! Thanks guys hug
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