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Supplementing the meat?

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jun 11, '13 5:16am PST 
Alright so pretty new to full raw. Really really wish I had seen that PDF of the prey model guide before I got into it. As is I went off internet research and another raw eBook I purchased. Now my question is supplementing the meat. I agree with no fruits and veggies, i understand the different supplements such as fish oil and joint support, which I use. However I'm focusing on other foods. The book I had read makes a recipe of 1-2lbs meat with 2-3 eggs, garlic, vinegar, yogurt and a squirt of honey. (Also kale but I omitted that) My pups get 11-13oz meals for the muscle meat and I put an egg in each. Do y'all think that may be too much? I do full egg which I guess the shell counts towards bone, which I already know I need to up their organ intake, so was thinking of skipping the egg shell just for that reason, if not for just the fact of focusing too much on poultry protein. Sorry I know a long question, just trying to keep/get them healthy and finish getting a good regiment going. thinking
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Charlie

The world is my- food bowl!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jun 11, '13 6:24am PST 
1-2lbs meat with 2-3 eggs, garlic, vinegar, yogurt and a squirt of honey.

Eggs are good to give, and are necessary if you're not giving any other bone content, but everything else listed is optional and somewhat unnecessary. Garlic is a natural flea repellent, but offers no nutritional benefit. Vinegar.. I've never heard of adding before except maybe raw, undiluted apple cider vinegar which can sometimes help with digestion. Yogurt (preferably plain greek and sugar-free) can help as a snack or maybe aid with digestion. Honey is just sugar, and really isn't needed.

Most everything listed is more of a situational supplement, not a necessary one. Fish oil is also situational, though I believe that most dogs eating raw off of mainly commercial sources should have fish oil added.

This recipe is really unbalanced, and lacks the heavy nutrient content of organs and organ meats. The best way to make sure your dog is getting the right balance is to follow the 80/10/5/5 ratio, and also to switch up the proteins and types of meats now and then. I really enjoy making heart a part of my 80% meat content because it's not counted as a secreting organ, but it's very nutrient dense. I also include raw green tripe which helps a lot with keeping the digestive tract happy (moreso than yogurt for a dog).

Edit: I'd also keep an eye on their stool because personally, I think they'll need more bone content than an egg shell, especially when you start adding in organs.

Edited by author Tue Jun 11, '13 6:25am PST

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Hank

Is it dinner- time yet?
 
 
Barked: Tue Jun 11, '13 9:10am PST 
Hank eats only meat and eggs, no supplements at all. He get beef, pork, chicken gizzard/hearts, liver, kidneys and chicken or pork bone.

I feed him a pound a day broke into two 1/2 pound meals. Mondays he gets kidney with one meal and Thursday he gets liver with one meal. Bone for one meal every other day and a few raw eggs mixed with his meat per week (just the egg no shell)
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Tue Jun 11, '13 10:03am PST 
That sounds like half of a BARF diet to me. The other half would be raw meaty bones, probably chicken necks. If so don't feed the egg shells. If not then feed them but one shell will balance a couple pounds of meat. And veggies are very important to the diet for some reason, don't not feed them.

I would rather cut up meat and stick it in the freezer than do all that measuring too. I ran the numbers and supplement to get Max to the best approximation of a perfect diet we have, NRC 2006. It amounts to half a human quality multi mineral supplement a day and I do see a difference in his condition adding it. I haven't been on forums that support BARF and don't know if they try to do that or not.

Back to your actual question. Honey is not a good idea at all. Drop it. Some folks think raw vinegar is a super food, it won't hurt anything if your dogs will eat it. Some dogs do well with yogurt and some don't. Drop it if the dogs seem to do poorly with it. Eggs are great but that is a lot of egg. Lower the amount included if stools stay loose. Without the veggie the dogs will have loose stool as it firms the poop on a diet without bone. If Max couldn't have bone I would be adding bone meal plus 25% veggies to his meat and organ. That is a lot of veggies!
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Wed Jun 12, '13 9:48am PST 
Oh misunderstanding- they're definitely getting their RMBs still, chicken quarters turkey pork necks etc, plus liver kidney tripe heart lots of different stuff. That was just the mixture used for their muscle meats. I know garlic has no nutrition nor the apple cider vinegar but I'm having a huge bug problem so I'm trying everything, along with the apple cider supposed to help with coat a little. I use yogurt as well, plain organic, but have been omitting that as I'm blaming the terrible gas on it, so will try probiotics as a supplement instead. So yeah this was more a focus on whether that was possibly too much poultry meat
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Charlie &- Zelda

Love at first- sniff <3
 
 
Barked: Wed Jun 12, '13 11:31am PST 
Ahh, thanks for clearing that up Dante smile.

Tripe is, in my opinion, the best digestive aid you can find, even though it can cause a bit of loose stool if not introduced correctly. It's packed with good bacteria and helps regulate the gut just as a probiotic supplement does.

For bugs, garlic can certainly help in the right dosage. The only downside I found to garlic was that sometimes it gave my dogs really stinky farts silenced.

We use a mixture of Neem Oil and Citronella in a spray bottle (made by Ark Naturals) to keep bugs at bay. Before each walk or a trip to the dog park, the dogs can sprayed down good. Any certain bug you're having problems with?
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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Wed Jun 12, '13 4:32pm PST 
way to go Yeah right now i'm getting the green tripe rolls from the local (only) holistic store here, but I just got in contact with a slaughterhouse so i'm really hoping for a great boost to their diet on all organ fronts. Though worried about doing anything but the organs from the cattle, as I understand the bones are too thick?.. So we can stick to pork (though I guess get rid of the last pork chops I have) chicken quail and rabbit for the bone content

I think I may need to up a little bit on the garlic for my dobie, while I know too much is bad she's still getting bit up. The bugs are a completely brutal combination of horse flies (they even swarm me), mosquitos, possible fleas, definite ticks, and possibly some ant bites thrown in. I'm about to get some DE to sprinkle in my yard for the ants. I have the most natural spray I could find at the store, Pet Naturals of Vermont Protect, but I have been worried to use too much. However about to use more but also thinking of trying out the Terra Oils as someone said they work well for them
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Charlie &- Zelda

Love at first- sniff <3
 
 
Barked: Wed Jun 12, '13 5:05pm PST 
A lot of beef bones are too thick to crunch through, but larger breeds can handle ribs and oxtail without a problem.

Making a deal with a slaughterhouse can be really awesome, and supply you with a lot of cheap stuff you wouldn't find elsewhere. I used to have a hook-up with a private beef processor who would just throw stuff in a box the day I came to pick-up.. random stuff, but all the freshest it could possibly be. I got a lot of spleen, whole oxtails (really big!), and tracheas. On one occasion he gave me a 40 pound box of scrap meat which was basically meat that had slimy fat or blood clots, so gross for people but the dogs adored it. If you tell them that you're open to things that are not human-grade, they may hook you up with yucky bits like that that are still fine for dogs.

Sorry about the bug trouble, that sounds tough frown. Diatomaceous earth can definitely help your yard. Pet supply stores often carry essential oil (peppermint oil, etc) sprays also to hook up to a hose and treat your yard. Sadly, I don't have any other advice for that. Good luck!

Edited by author Wed Jun 12, '13 5:06pm PST

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Dante

You know i'm- cute, pet me!
 
 
Barked: Wed Jun 12, '13 5:14pm PST 
Oh right forgot about the trachea! Though he remembered the oxtail. Wasn't sure on the ribs. Dante is probably a bit small with his baby teeth still but I'm not even sure on Sasha, she's right on the borderline of big dog I feel. But I can try it out.

Good tips on the scrap meat! Had given them a pretty short email on some of the stuff I was looking for and on the phone today he said he was gonna figure out some pricing, but I think I just need to sit and talk for a few. It's an hour+ drive one way but worth it in the long run to stop getting everything from walmart. Thanks Charlie and Zelda big grin
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