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Thoughts on my feeding this diet?

This is a dedicated place for all of your questions and answers about Raw Diets. There are also some really cool groups like "Raw Fed" on the topic you can join. This forum is for people who already know they like the raw diet or sincerely want to learn more. Please remember that you are receiving advice from peers and not professionals. If you have specific health-related questions about your dog's diet, please contact your vet!

  
Ember

1285072
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 9:26pm PST 
I have been feeding Daisy raw for a while now. Whole chicken legs and the like with some liver, sometimes adding in some beef. She did good on that, but I always worried about ratios a bit. At 7 years though I figured that I couldn't do too much wrong. Her growth and development wasn't at risk. Now however I have decided to go all in. I actually bought a meat grinder so I could get my cat on raw and decided that the pup (Ember) would go on it as well. While the grinding of bones obviously removes some of the benefit for their teeth, I am much more comfortable feeding this to everyone as it greatly reduces any chance for choking. Plus the cat won't chew enough bones to get the ratios right. I follow the recipe found on catinfo.org. I have no doubt about it working for a cat, but I do worry it isn't balanced for a dog. Ember is still under a year old. She has been on this for about a month now. Perfect stool, eats it like a champ. Weight and energy are great. Thoughts?

For every 3 pounds of chicken quarters (with bone and skin) I use:

1 cup water

2 eggs

5000 mg fish oil

400 IU (268 mg) Vitamin E

50 mg Vitamin B-complex

2,000 mg taurine

3/4 tsp Morton Lite salt with iodine

Liver (4 ounces)
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 11:07pm PST 
Not a fan. It would have twice the calcium and phosphorus, 10% of the zinc, 20% of the iron and 150% of the copper my dog needs according to NRC. Adding 3 pounds of lean pork/lamb/beef and using double the liver but beef and another liver would help a great deal and make twice as many meals!
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Member Since
02/02/2013
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 8:16am PST 
Whole food vitamins and minerals are superior to artificially produced ones. This is true for both humans and pets. For my brood of skin and fur, I follow holistic principles complete with a holistic pediatrician and vet.

A healthy diet will not need supplements in a pill. The pills are for deficiencies that are just not possible in the regular course of your nutrition plan. For example, if you can't get your hands on grass-fed beef or free-range chickens or fish, you can supplement omega-3/6 with a pill. If the kids have to wear globs of sunscreen because they burn too easily, supplement Vitamin D. The best source for these nutrients is whole foods that have the proper balance and bindings for proper absorption/digestability for the species' physiology. Supplements are for treating symptoms of illness or for cases when whole foods is not possible.

My kids and dogs don't take supplements. They're in their teens and both kids have only taken antibiotics 3 times in both their lives combined: one for a surgery to set a broken bone, one for stitches after hitting the head with the park's metal water cannon, one for pneumonia. I'm past my mid-life crisis and has not needed supplements yet.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 11:28am PST 
I don't like using supplements either but the ones in the recipe look fine to me. Vitamin E is hard to come by in most diets unless nuts are eaten, B vitamins would be fine in the altered recipe but some animals do better with lots of the stuff, fish oil is fine, lite salt provides potassium which might be a bit low in raw food and cats need added taurine.
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Ember

1285072
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 11:46am PST 
So basically where the problem is is mostly in the fact that there is too much bone? They do need a higher bone than not, as they have loose stool with less than 15%, but I agree, 30% is too high. Again, not sure if I can double the liver as they (the dogs) tend to get runny stool with too much more, but I can do a variety. I can def add more meat though. Beef stew meat is cheap enough. As far as the supplements, they are more for the cat. I know that taurine will just be expelled if there is extra, and won't cause problems. Thinking about adding some sardines in place of the fish oil or doing a 50/50 for that. The sardines will add some nice flavor. Does anyone know if there is a similar guide/spreadsheet for cats on raw? I know I should be able to make a diet for the three of them, as there are a few commercial dog/cat diets that are nutritionally sound. It's just going to take some more research and work. big grin
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Duke

I'm king of the- world!
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 1:24pm PST 
My cats eat commercial raw. Being that they are 8 and 12, they are stubborn buggers and flat-out refuse bone items or whole meat. And it is dangerous to "starve out" a cat. It's a lot easier for me this way, and still cheaper than kibble because cats eat so much less. I like Bravo! since you can get it without veggies. But I scored about 100 lbs of 100% organic, pre-made food last week for $1/lb that includes some veggies, so they will be eating that for awhile!
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 8:00pm PST 
The added meat is to lower the bone content and to raise the amount of iron, copper and zinc in the diet. As is this recipe is extremely low in those minerals. Perhaps animals fed a higher percentage of their body weight daily would be fine but I see a positive change in Max's condition when he gets NRC levels of the minerals.

If the animals need more bone then use bonier cuts and more red meat rather than chicken quarters. Mix in a few backs or necks maybe.

Try kidney, spleen or sweetbreads instead of the double liver then. Just trying to approximate prey model levels is all. And you can add a little more each time you make a batch, doesn't have to be all or nothing.

I know ground seems safer than whole stuff but a dogster died choking on ground. There is nothing to pull out if a dog grabs and swallows too much at one time. Max can vacuum a fluffy pile of ground stuff in an instant. Be careful. I smash it around the edge of the pan or mix in a lot of water to make a stew now.
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Ember

1285072
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 10:13pm PST 
I will definitely add some more meat, especially of different animal types. The leg quarters do typically contain some back though. About 6 inches of back, a little rib, etc. Daisy gets 3% of her body weight, Ember gets 5-8% because she is under a year. They are both small breeds at less than 6lbs apiece. Would 1 lb of meat to the 3 lbs of chicken quarters be appropriate to balance it better? Or should I be adding more per that 3 lbs, like 1.5? Would it be better if I buy whole chickens and grind them (whole being without head/neck/feet but with some organs)?

I will ask my local market if they carry anything other than the chicken liver. Sometimes I add turkey or chicken gizzards and hearts, but I know that is just more meat, not organ. I get that variety is key here though. If I could order some cans of green tripe would that count as an organ?

As for it being ground, my dogs chew very slowly and never scarf anything. Again, I mostly grind to make sure everything is mixed in well and so the cat will eat the bones. Thank you though for pointing out this risk. It is fairly well ground, I consider it akin to canned food or the pre-made Nature's Variety.

For the cat food, I would buy pre-made if I could get it for that nice $1 per pound. As it is, my cat is my largest animal and once my puppy is no longer a puppy, will eat the most. It will also help once I move in August to somewhere where I will be for 6 years and I can find someplace I can more regularly use to buy stuff if I need to go with pre-made.

Thank you for being patient with me! I really do want to do what is best for my pets.
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