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How to determine amount to start feeding?

This is the place to share your best homemade dog food and treat recipes with each other! Remember to use caution if your pet has allergies and to make any diet changes gradually so that your dog's stomach can adjust to the new foods you are introducing.

  
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Kloppers

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Barked: Fri Dec 23, '11 6:32pm PST 
I am trying to start home cooking for my 4 dogs and 2 cats..but I am a bit confused about how much to feed. I decided to go with a recipe book called Dinner Pawsible, I think I will do better with exact recipes (atleast for now)..each recipe says it is for a 30lb dog. So should I go by that or by the calories? Also since it says calories is that what it is, or does it relate to the kcal on dry dog food??

The little dogs will be easier to feed but I am worried about making sure Bella is getting enough but not too much. So am I taking the serving and multiplying by 7 or what are your suggestions? If it helps Bella is 150lbs, Xmas 40lbs, Zoe 22lbs, and Tinker 5lbs...also here is a sample recipe I am looking at.

Turkey Dinner: Protein 40g, Fat 15g, Cal 577
1/2 cup Turkey breast (3.5 cup for everyone)
2 tbsp chicken liver (almost 1 cup chicken liver)
3/4 cup sweet potato (5 1/4 cup sweet potato)
3/4 cup cauliflower (5 1/4 cup cauliflower)
3/4 cup broccoli (5 1/4 cup broccoli)
1/2 cup mushrooms (3.5 cups mushrooms)
1 cup black beans (7 cups black beans)
2 tsp sunflower seeds (about 4.5 tbsp sunflower seeds)
2 tsp olive oil (about 4.5 tbsp olive oil)
1/4 tsp ground egg shell (1 3/4 tsp egg shell)
1/2 cup bone broth (3.5 cups bone broth)
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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw		 
 
Barked: Fri Dec 23, '11 8:58pm PST 
Kloppers I was going to reply to your post in the health forum saying I'd help with homecooking if you wanted! I used to homecook. I'm not the most knowledgable about it here but maybe I can help! I always went by weight, not by calories, and some days I fed more or less depending on activity, and in a few weeks I could tell if I was feeding enough or not. My advice is not worry so much about the amount, if you feed close that's great! You can adjust easy as it goes on. That recipe looks good.(but mushrooms? Do they need to be a special kind? And beans - LOL I would skip beans for many reasons laugh out loud I wonder why sunflower seeds too?)
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Kloppers

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Barked: Sat Dec 24, '11 4:06am PST 
Thanks Adam...here is what the book says about the things you mentioned!

Sunflower seeds: seeds are an excellent source of vitamin E and a good source of B1, manganese, magnesium, copper, selenium, phosphorus and folate. Sunflower seeds are high in vitamin E which provides antioxidants helping to neutralize free radicals that could otherwise damage cells. In studies, sunflower seeds were one of several seeds and nuts to contain phytosterols; phytosterols are believed to reduce blood levels of cholesterol, enhance the immune decrease the risk of cancer. Sunflower seeds are also a good source of magnesium, necessary for bone health and energy production.

Mushrooms: are a rich source of vitamin D, B-complex vitamins, A and C. Animal studies have shown that mushrooms help fight cancer tumors as well as a cancer preventive.

Beans: and red beans are an excellent source of folates, fiber, manganese, magnesium, iron, phosphorus, and vitamin B1 (thiamin). Black and red beans are also an excellent source of the trace mineral molybdenum, which is responsible for detoxifying sulfites (a type of preservative commonly added to prepared foods). Black and red beans are rich in anti-oxidants; equal to the anti-oxidant powers of fruits such as blueberries. Animal studies suggest that not only do black beans help protect against cancer, but a "clear reduction" in the number of pre-cancerous cells were seen. Studies have

I think until I feel more comfortable making the food I will stick with the recipes, but I am sure once I get the hang of it I can stray a little. After the first of the year I am going to do a trial grocery trip, and if I can get a weeks worth of ingredients for $30-40 bucks I will be able to continue home cooking! If I can't make it now..I might be able to in a few months, when my husband leaves for deployment I will have one less mouth to feed, so I can use normal grocery money for the dogs!

Should I continue with the normal supplements they take as well? I am trying to gather all the knowledge I need before talking with my vet because she will likely turn her nose up at first, however she always comes around for me!
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Beauregard

1207665		 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 24, '11 6:00am PST 
Kloppers I think that recipe looks really good. I would worry about the mushrooms, if a dog liked the taste of them would they try to eat the ones outside that could be poisonous. I used to give Beauregard sunflower seeds but I had to grind them up first because if I didn't they would just come out the other end whole so he wouldn't get any of the goodness in them. Somewhere I read that it is good to use a slow cooker to cook your dog's meals in. I wonder if the meals would be healthier because with a slow cooker you are using a low heat to cook the food and high eat can destroy some nutrients in the food.

@Adam, It's very nice of you to offer to help Kloppers with the homemade diet. I know that you do prey model raw now, I just started Beauregard on Prey model raw and I really wish you would help me with that. I have read so much about it and I just end up getting confused. I wish they had recipes to follow like they do for home cooking so that you know your doing it right. Unfortunately I don't understand most of the stuff I read about it and with so many opinions and stuff about how to do it I just end up getting more confused. I just hope that Beauregard doesn't end up suffering because of my dumbness. I'm sure that if Beauregard could read and talk he would understand it better than I do.

Kloppers I hope you find the home cooking for your dogs easier and less confusing. Your dogs are lucky to have such a good mom making them such healthy meals.
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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 24, '11 8:25am PST 
Goody, a recipe to analyze! I will get right on it for you.

I started out by feeding 20 calories per pound of dog. The number of cups or ounces varied a lot depending on how much fat and water was used in a particular batch of food so I did the math each and every time I cooked for Sassy. Max, 38 pound healthy 11 year old, needs about 15 calories per pound but Sassy, kidney disease 16 year old 42 pound dog, needed 25 calories per pound to keep from looking like a skeleton. Usually Sassy's food was 16-24 ounces of chicken and rice plus goodies for her 1000 calories a day and Max gets 10 ounces of raw meat/bone/organ for his 600 calories a day.

Here it is! A total of 6000 calories, enough to feed Max for about 10 days or Sassy for 6 days.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2378221/2

smilesmile: )smilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmilesmile

More info that you didn't ask for. Ignore if you like as the food is just fine for your dogs even if on paper it doesn't come out as a perfect and complete food. Mixing up different recipes probably makes for a balanced diet overall.

It is low in B12, zinc, copper, selenium, riboflavin, phosphorus and vitamin E. Sodium is low but that is easily remedied by using half unsalted and half salted canned beans.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2378221/2

I would dump the beans for 28 ounces of hamburger, use half egg shell half bone meal at about 4.5 tsp of each, add 4.5 ounces of canned oysters for zinc and copper, use 1/2 beef liver and 1/2 chicken liver instead of all chicken liver and supplement with vitamin E and fish oil. Red meat like beef, pork and lamb are richer in vitamins and minerals than poultry.
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/recipe/2378206/2

I would be researching just how much calcium could be in that bone broth stuff before trusting it as a calcium source. 38 pound Max needs as much calcium as a grown human.

Really I should relax about the whole #mg of zinc and all that. If Max ate cooked food I would simply offer 75% meat/organ/egg/fish by weight and 25% fibrous veggies like zucchini and broccoli with bone meal at 1 tsp per pound of meats and make sure to feed a day's worth of fish a week and done. That way I would need to feed about 3% of his body weight a day, 16 ounces for him. As in Lew Olson's low glycemic diet.
http://www.b-naturals.com/newsletter/low-glycemic/

Edited by author Sat Dec 24, '11 9:45am PST

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Adam

Vaccine free- -Disease free- goes pawinpaw		 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 24, '11 8:38am PST 
About the beans and seeds for fiber, one of my (um seemingly numerous laugh out loud ) pet peeves is giving dogs excess fiber, because it isn't healthy, for people yes for dogs no. I've posted this link before but if you didn't see it this explains:
http://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/ 2011/07/12/dietary-fiber-in-processed-pet-food.aspx?np=true

That' s one reason why I switched to prey model raw, because there are a lot of homecooking recipes and can be based on very different beliefs on how to feed. I think most homecooking recipes for dogs are based on what's good for a human and really good for humans lol. But Maxwell will analyze you're in good paws laugh out loud

Beauregard, honestly what I said in the other thread is true, I really don't feel I could be best alone to help you, I wish you would ask on the raw forum anyway. didn't you say a vet tested every food Beau eats to eliminate allergies and intolerances? Did the vet put him on such a veg heavt diet?

Edited by author Sat Dec 24, '11 8:39am PST

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Beauregard

1207665		 
 
Barked: Sat Dec 24, '11 9:03am PST 
@Adam The vet didn't put Beauregard on a veg heavy diet. There are certain foods he can't have but there is a lot he can have. It's easier for me just to have help from one person than from a lot of people. I guess I will just have to figure it all out on my own.shrug (I'm sending you an email)

Edited by author Sat Dec 24, '11 9:12am PST

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Kloppers

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Barked: Sun Dec 25, '11 6:11pm PST 
So..after doing some price shopping, home-cooking might be out of the question. However..I came across this website, any raw feeders (Adam) have any insight that could guide me as right or wrong.

http://www.centralmeats.com/content.asp?pl=260&contentid=3 79

Basically it is a butcher here in town, if I did my math right I think I could feed all 6 animals for around 250 a month, which is over my 150 limit..however I just got rid of my smartphone so that is 60 extra dollars and we should be getting a raise after the first of the year..lol..this could work.

So do these prices look good? Or is this not the way to buy prey-model meat?
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Beauregard

1207665		 
 
Barked: Sun Dec 25, '11 7:37pm PST 
I have read so many websites on prey model raw and the more I read the more confused I get. I hope you have better luck understanding it all than I do. I am so worried that I'm not doing it right and I'll end up making Beauregard sick. I don't get the 80%-10%-10% thing at all. When I give Beauregard his chicken or whatever I can't tell if he has eaten the right percents like he's suppose to. I'm so afraid of not balancing his diet properly. I think the prey model diet is the best for dogs but I think the cooked homemade diet sounds easier because you just have to follow the recipes.

Edited by author Sun Dec 25, '11 7:45pm PST

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Maxwell

I'm triple- superior MAD- now!		 
 
Barked: Sun Dec 25, '11 8:22pm PST 
Kloppers, those prices look fine, especially the red meats and organs. You may be able to get better deals on poultry. Around here whole chicken goes on sale for $.80 a pound all the time. I can buy ground beef for $1.50 a pound from the clearance bin most of the time too, about what your supplier costs. I pay up to $2 a pound for red meat, fish and organs, up to $1 for chicken. To take advantage of the best prices from that butcher, sales, clearance bin finds and Craig's List scores you will need a freezer. Many areas have co-ops organized and some people contact farmers directly.

If you don't use those rigid recipes home cooking will be cheaper. There really isn't any need to use all those expensive veggies in one pot. You can just buy whatever meat and veggie is on sale, save trimmings from your veggies and meats and use those. Just feed mostly meat, about 25% veggies, feed some liver and fish with a calcium source and done.

And you can always supplement a commercial diet with home cooking and/or raw. Make a kibble topping from the Christmas turkey bones or chop up the overdone pork roast or scramble a couple eggs or open a can of mackerel/salmon/sardines and add to kibble. Offer up a 1/2 ration of raw for meals a couple times a week.

I hear you Beauregard! I read and read and bookmarked and calculated and shopped and it took forever before I was ready to try it for real. Max started raw just about 4 years ago, I gave him chopped raw meat mixed with his rice and veggies, then he got a raw chicken wing, then I dropped the rice and after at least 6 months I dropped the veggies after a spoonful of canned pumpkin went through him completely unchanged. I was used to seeing bits of veggie in poop but this was the whole spoonful just as I gave it to him. Max's gut was telling me to cut it out!

On the yahoo raw feeding list it is emphasized to feed meat with enough bone to firm the poop and a little organ in as much variety as you like. I elaborate on that by emphasizing red meats as much as possible and feeding fatty fish for one day a week. And that is it. In practice Max gets mostly red meat as the bone he mostly gets is very bony chicken heads/feet/ribs, too much organ because he loves it so and sardines as part of his diet several days every 2 weeks. Once a week he gets something I don't expect him to be able to completely eat like a bison or pork neck or beef ribs for better tooth cleaning and just because it is even more fun than just eating raw meat/organ and easy chicken bone.

Poop watching is definitely the key to success feeding raw. Your *goal* is as little bone as needed once the dog's gut is accustomed to eating raw but you feed what your dog's gut needs. Max probably gets more than that 10% [probably because his meals tend to be too large and he probably gets more organ than needed] but the guideline helps me keep bone down as much as possible.
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