Anyone heard of dog flipping?

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Stella

I'm from Broken- Bow, we don't- play that!

Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 9:25pm PST


	I've got nothing against reputable rescues. How the fake ones do it is they apply for 501 non profit status to appear legal and then obtain dogs and claim they are rescuing them when in fact they are reselling/flipping them. They get owner surrenders, dogs pulled from high kill shelters or pick up dogs they say were just wandering around when these dogs could very well be missing pets and not strays or feral dogs. I think the following links will clear things up. Craigslist Crazy: Online New World Pet Shop http://voices.yahoo.com/craigslist-crazy-online-world-pet-shop -dog-7806502.html Attorney General shuts down fake animal rescue http://www.katu.com/news/local/124742884.html

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty

Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 9:47pm PST


	That's the thing though, Stella....neither of those links refer to dogs pulled out of a shelter, which would be really hard to flip, as long as those rescues follow the basic guidelines (vetted, speutered). When a rescue pulls a dog from a shelter, generally they have had neither health nor behavioral assessment. The rescue needs to, minimally, invest in the dog the expense of getting him into the rescue, getting him to the vet, having his shots done, his stool tested for worms, and then has him speutered. This requires an investment, and doesn't even cover the dogs whose vet visits turn up something that needs treatment (heartworm, etc.) "Flipping" generally means low or no investment. That does not equate with pulling from shelters, where the investment starts minimally at $150 and past that the sky really is the limit. Right now we have an English Setter who came in presumed healthy and has since wracked up $500 in vet bills due to having been quilled by a porcupine. I don't think we as a rescue go any span of time without a dog who comes up with $400-$500 vet bills. We had one rescue litter of four who had ONE puppy who didn't have a problem...."only" needed her shots and speuter surgery. Two others had cherry eye (one had both eyes requiring of surgery) and the other had a life threatening cervical condition. The litter before that had a cherry eye puppy and another who had an inguinal hernia that required a surgery as well. The mothers of both litters also were HW positive and needed HW treatment, which is hundreds of more dollars. The only way shelter dogs can be flipped is if the rescue finds adopters willing to take on unvetted, unspeutered dogs, which not a lot of adopters are keen to do. Edited by author Sun Nov 25, '12 9:48pm PST

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Duncan

Because I'm- Duncan, that's- why

moderator

Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 10:01pm PST


	BOL! That yahoo "voices" (editorial) piece was hilarious! Chock full of typos, grammatical errors, unsubstantiated "facts," and conspiracy theory on virtually every aspect of pet ownership and activity. OOooooookay. Apparently the author has issues with not only pet flippers, but also at-home dog sitters ("You can make $20 a day doing this!" Outrageous?! BOL), and people who lease/ share horses. And she ends the editorial talking about elephant flipping in Bangkok. Are you taking this seriously?!?

Stella

I'm from Broken- Bow, we don't- play that!

Barked: Sun Nov 25, '12 10:11pm PST


	Here's another case that might give you more insight that shelter dogs have become victims of dog flipping. Take a gander at this report from Utah. http://www.deseretnews.com/article/705394082/Shelters-concern ed-about-animal-flipping-trend.html?pg=all They got a tip from someone who had seen the dog online and were able to get him back.

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 12:32am PST


	I am still not getting the problem. Dog stealing I TOTALLY get as a problem, and that is a big deal. But if you are talking about unwanted and value-less dogs, crowding shelters, and finding their way into a new home? The article said "“Flipping”....could put them in danger because people can’t ensure that the pets will be placed in a safe environment. Shelters have protocols to ensure that animals are placed in a safe and loving home." Ok, well that's sort of a dunderheaded thing to say, because said shelter adopted the dog to the very flipper they are complaining about. I say this particularly from a horse perspective. They are so called "flipped" all the time, and it's not viewed as a bad thing. People buy horses at feed lots, or from auctions or dealers and then sell them privately. That's what "flipping" is called in the horse industry. Or in the racehorse industry, it is called "pinhooking," where you buy a weanling at auction, then resell him as yearling, looking for a profit. It's all very normal there. I admit masquerading as someone who has owned the dog for a while and cannot keep it....a dog who you bought on Craig'slist only two weeks before. Ok, a little sleazy. But where is the palpable harm, given that two weeks ago, the dog was just that....being offered on Craig'slist by someone who has owned the dog for a while and cannot keep him? As I said, dog theft is a whole different problem. But given that a lot of people are uncomfortable going into shelters, and someone adopts the dog then sells it....the shelter's aim, to find the dog a home, still gets fulfilled. I admit it's sleazy, but in the end the actual harm is hard to calculate. If the original rehomer gave the dog to a flipper, it's not as if they had superior placement discretion. It's a far greater concern if these dogs get sold to research or to the fight industry. If the original rehomer was lax enough to give the dog to a flipper, it's not like they were kingpins of good placement in the first place. They just probably wanted to get rid of the dog. Edited by author Mon Nov 26, '12 12:39am PST

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Duncan

Because I'm- Duncan, that's- why

moderator

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 12:52am PST


	That's exactly what I thought when I read that article, Tiller! And "dunderheaded" summed it up perfectly!!!

Stella

I'm from Broken- Bow, we don't- play that!

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 1:07am PST


	Most people don't know they've given a dog to a flipper until after the dog is gone. There's cases of where people left their dog with a friend and then when they go back, they find out that the 'friend' gave away or flipped the dog. The bottomline is dogflipping is considered inhumane and just plain wrong because people are taking a person's pet under false pretenses. Also, dogs that have been flipped don't always end up in good homes. It's been proven they can end up in dog fights, puppy mills or used for animal testing. Here's a news clip: http://www.wmctv.com/story/17214983/experts-warn-dog-flippi ng-on-the-rise According to most sources, many people now realize just how much dogs are worth and that they can make a profit doing this sort of thing. Try looking up the HBO documentary, Dealing Dogs.

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 2:03am PST


	I cannot grasp why it is inhumane. People need to take some responsibility. The original person trying to rehome the dog had such lame standards that the gave the dog to the flipper. They could have also given the dog to a buncher (for a very sad ending) or even if to a home, the free price tag would have made the dog more disposable. Now, they end up with a flipper, who while far from a saint at least gives the dog better prospects by having a price tag, safe from the bangers, potentially less disposable because money was paid. It's disconcerting due to the pretense, the lie, that got the dog released to them, but in the end the original rehomer just wanted to get rid of the dog, or they wouldn't have been so loosey goosey with how little scrutiny they applied to their potential free dog adopter. The TRAGEDY here are people who want to dump dogs off on Craig'slist. I can't see them as victims. They should have been more responsible, and if they had the passion to get the dog back, then why get rid of him as a freebie in the first place? If people see an income making opportunity in unwanted pets, who are highly prone to ending up with bangers in the way they are being marketed, it's not as if they get a gold star, but frankly rehoming a free dog to any old person who comes along is far more of an inhumane action IMO.

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Toto, CD,- RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 6:52am PST


	I agree with Tiller... the fault lies in the original person rehoming the dog, NOT in the person they give it to. If people were more careful there would be no dogs for flippers to get. Stella, how about some sources for all your statements, especially when you say "it has been proven", etc. Without verifiable sources your statements mean nothing at all. And, if a person leaves their dog with a friend who then gives it away WHY is that the fault of the friend MORE than the owner who didn't do enough research on their friend prior to leaving their pet in that person's care. This "problem" (if it really IS a problem, no statistics provided), has nothing to do with dog flipping at all, it just has to do with a poor selection of friends. For all we know, that dog owner could have NOT returned to get their dog when they agreed to, or abandoned it with the friend or something like that. In our boarding kennel we have a specific contract which covers abandoned dogs... not much question about who is right when there is a contract signed and witnessed. Edited by author Mon Nov 26, '12 6:55am PST

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Stella

I'm from Broken- Bow, we don't- play that!

Barked: Mon Nov 26, '12 12:07pm PST


	Why dog flipping is considered inhumane is because the dogs are put under stress and they aren't treated the best way. Many that do return home are underweight and scared out of their mind. But the point is dog flippers don't care who they sell dogs to they just want somebody to buy the dog. A friend of mine who runs a rescue group talked about how she got a weird phone call from somebody asking if the dogs she had were for sale, she explained that they were not for sale but there was an adoption fee and what was involved in adopting a dog. After a couple of minutes, she hung up the phone. Another friend of mine had her dog stolen back in 2005. I felt really bad for her and they never found him.

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