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Bella collaspsed again :(

This forum is for dog lovers seeking everyday advice and suggestions on health-related issues. Remember, however, that advice on a public forum simply can't be a substitute for proper medical attention. Only your vet can say assuredly what is best for your dog.

  
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Kloppers

1229827
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 3:18am PST 
Sabi, thank you and your words do mean a lot...it is good to hear about dogs who lived years after this kind of thing happening. I just want Bella to live a long and happy life, but with not knowing her age it is hard to know what is normal and what is not. Our age range for her now is anywhere between 3-9 which is drastic...9 is a good age for a Saint but I find it really hard to agree with that age, I find her to be more around 3...but recently my only info to support was debunked by a saint rescue president who has been working with Saints for over 40yrs, so I do believe her.

I guess I have decided to go ahead with the holter monitor the rescue who is helping gets 15%discount so that helps and I got an email today saying they accepted our tax return so that will be very helpful. Although I do not agree with Justin the 24 hr holter if it gives us info saying she doesn't have symptoms daily that will make me feel better and if she does, well then atleast I know that too. I will also find out if meds are an option or not. Thanks again everyone
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Scooter,- PAWS

Power of the Paw- for those who- need it
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 5:09am PST 
So, let me make sure i understand. she does not have hypothryroidism?

Also, with regards to her kidney work up, is it just the phosphorus and bun/creatine ratio that are off? What about the Bun level, Creatine level? From what I'm understanding, she doesn't have kidney disease but they suspect she may have some renal insuffiency?

Last question...how many times was the bloodwork done? Just wondering how many times it was "off"?

Edited by author Thu Jan 31, '13 5:13am PST

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Kloppers

1229827
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 5:41am PST 
She is still hypothyroid, her most recent check came up low so we were going to need to up her meds. However it turned out to be the reference range for recheck was off, so her number is not low..therefore we will not be changing her dose.

As for the BUN and Creatine they have came up elevated everytime. The phosphosus is not elevated by reference range but from the reading I has done on dogs with renal insuffiency they should not be over 4. Bella is right in the egde of insuffiency and moderate based on her CREAT levels. The numbers only increase slightly at each test, I was just making an observation that although within normal range her phosphosus has increased as has her bun/CREAT ratio although I wasn't finding much info regarding it. CREAT started at 1.8 and has increased to 2.6(dropped back a tad this last time) and bun started at 32 and since then has increased to 40 but has maintained that the past year. Finally having the actual labs here and not notes made over the phone makes it easier to see the increases overall.

She has had 4 bloodworks done...Dec 2011, Jan 2011, July 2012, and Jan 2013. She has had 4 urinalysis done, the first 2 had some protein in there, but specific gravity was good...her 2 newest ones looked great.
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Scooter,- PAWS

Power of the Paw- for those who- need it
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 6:46am PST 
ahhhh ok....thanks for explaining it. Well it definitely sounds like you are top of it. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't just one test.

It sounds like whatever you are doing it's staying steady or only showing slight changes. Have you changed her diet at all?

Hoping others have feedback. I have a little experience from the research I did because Scooter was tested for possible kidney disease when she was younger (plus a bunch of other tests) and then it was suspected she had mild renal insuffiencies a year ago. But after retests, every thing has come normal so I was just making sure that isn't what happened with Bella.
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Aina- Aloysius de- LeMaitre

work hard, play- hard
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 7:46am PST 
You seem interested in gaining knowledge regarding Bella's conditions. Knowledge and wisdom will serve both of you well on this journey!

Regarding Bella's thyroid, I highly recommend getting hold of Dr.Jean Dodds' book regarding the Canine Thyroid Epidemic. I would recommend it for all dog owners whether or not their dogs currently have thyroid issues or not. Aina was daignosed with dilated cardiomyopathy and hypothyroidism within months of each other. Anecdotal evidence is strong correlating the two but research is very limited since each condition falls into vastly different specialities. Only vets with a more holistic eye on the client will consider connecting the dots. While we were able to bring her conditions under control so that clinically she appeared "normal," that didn't mean she was all better and went off meds. Yes, her EKGs, etc. were repeatedly normal one year after diagnosis. Yes, her thyroid panel showed numbers within normal range. But we remained steady with her treatments, knowing those were only clinical signs. Her body's life force/energy/Qi was clear that deficiencies remained. A long winded way of saying not to go off meds even if tests suggest "normal" for these conditions!

As for renal insufficiencies, the diagnosis is based on the bloodwork and urinalysis using first urine of the day? Or do other clinical signs correlate? We went through extensive repeatedly bloodwork and urinalysis on our Rosie, as had all her previous owners. Most of the time, her clinical symptoms pointed toward a UTI. However, the blood and urine didn't always fall in line there. We quickly decided on an ultrasound for a better look at the kidneys. The technician's evaluation was "severe kidney damage." Our 3 year old Rosie had the kidneys of an aged 9 year old. Massive diet change (from dry kibble to home cooked), acupuncture, Chinese herbs, etc. have vastly improved her condition. Why the condition in the first place? We are her third home, so we don't know exactly. We just know that we are giving her food and supplements appropriate for her now. And she is thriving!

If you have concerns over Bella's kidneys and her adrenals, then I would highly recommend an ultrasound. Insist that Bella not be sedated and that you be present, especially with all that is going on with her. I recall a good article in Whole Dog Journal a couple years back about Addison's, so that might help you understand that possibility as well. The article may suggest more affordable approaches to diagnosing Addison's.

Here's hoping that you and your healing team are able to get to the healing stage for Bella.
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Bianca CGC- TT HIC Thd- ♥

What big ears- you have...
 
 
Barked: Thu Jan 31, '13 9:15pm PST 
I agree with Aina, I would get an ultrasound. Do they have any info on why she has renal disease(a cause)? How is her blood pressure?
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MIKA&KAI

Akita Pals- Always.
 
 
Barked: Sun Feb 3, '13 8:01pm PST 
Just wanted to check in and see if there was anything new. Glad to hear that you are going to have more testing done and that Bella's thyriod is stable and that is why they are not changing her meds at this point,I feel much better. I hope that with the new testing you are able to finally get some answers.wishes and we look forward to getting updates as you know more.
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Kloppers

1229827
 
 
Barked: Wed Feb 6, '13 5:25am PST 
The holter monitor from NC state came in the other day and I shaved Bella in the spots required and went to put it on and the leads are too small to be placed in the proper location, so I had to send it back. Luckily it did not cost any money unless you use it. So now we will have to go to the cardiologists office.

Bella's food allergies are being a pain right now, so we are trying to get that back under control. We were trying raw and she is not adjusting well, haven't given up yet...but I am getting close. She is so sensitive to everything! She seems happy so that is good.
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Scooter,- PAWS

Power of the Paw- for those who- need it
 
 
Barked: Wed Feb 6, '13 5:27am PST 
and yet through it all, through their resilence, she is still happy. I'm glad you see that and it's helping you get through this. Continuing to send her lots of PoP cloud 9hughughughughug
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Kloppers

1229827
 
 
Barked: Tue Feb 19, '13 6:22am PST 
Well Bella had the holter monitor and there was no abnormal Heartbeats to determine what is causing Bella's problem. There were some times of tachycardia but they were relevant to the activity she was doing. The cardiologist now believes more that her problem is more related to the backflow of blood between the L and R atrium. In the dye test there was bubbles that passed through the hole into the R atrium. She of course wants to send her to NC State because she still believes this problem isn't big enough to cause her syncope. I honestly at this point do not know how much more we are going to seek info. Although 2 fainting episodes is not nothing to worry about, I think at this point I can just going to monitor and see if things worsen. They are still not talking any meds.

We have stopped feeding Raw, Bella got very sick a few days ago and she looked awful. She is rebounding nicely. We are trying Great Life Salmon along with some homecooking. We are looking into the kidney ultrasound but also a veterinary dentist that can do X-rays without sedating her. Her breath is so bad it is hard to share a room with her, the smell comes mostly from the blood in her mouth. I clean her teeth daily and flush out her gums with a mouthwash and use a antiseptic and antibiotic gel on the gum line. She really doesn't have plaque, her gums don't look inflamed as much as they have been but the smell is still horrid. The vet doesn't seem to have a cause or solution mainly due to her other health issues.

At this point we have to take a break from vet care unless urgent. We had some severe storms and we just had to replace our roof and have some landscaping done, the erosion of our yard washed away our fence...living on a creek that has tidal flooding was not a good idea.

We will have her bloodwork updated in July unless things seem off before then.
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