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Oversized Shepherds?

If you are wondering what is the right dog for you, this is the place to be. In this introductory forum we talk about topics such as breed vs. mix, size, age, grooming, breeders, shelters, rescues as well as requirements for exercise, space and care. No question is too silly here. This particular forum is for getting and giving helpful, nice advice. It is definitely not a forum for criticizing someone else's opinion, knowledge or advice. This forum is all about tail wagging and learning.

  
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Delta

Play hard, sleep- well.
 
 
Barked: Fri Sep 6, '13 3:58pm PST 
I have been very active in a recent article written about a GSD breeder. This guy breeds oversized shepherds. I was wondering if the dogs are healthy? They claim "straight back" yet I saw that a breeding dog on another breeder's website possibly could have DM? The kennel's name is Royalair. Hmmmm...
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Thor CGC

God of Thunder
 
 
Barked: Sat Sep 7, '13 3:03pm PST 
You generally can't tell by looking at a dog if they have DM.

As far as oversized, some are healthy, some aren't. They obviously aren't as agile and aren't fit to work, but they can be good pets.
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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 1:31am PST 
There is no way to tell by looking at a dog that it has DM until they start showing symptoms.

Royalair found a niche and filled it, admirably. If I wanted a giant shepherd they would be my first stop. They do what they have been doing for many, many years and some of their dogs are amazing. There is a reason for the size of a properly bred GSD and a drastic increase in size impacts the ability to work and remain sound.
If you are going to knock GSD breeders for not testing for DM be prepared to knock a lot of them. Very few are yet actively testing and the impact on the breed if every dog that was a carrier was removed would be devastating. The better plan is testing and breeding to minimize spread until things can be stabilized. A DM carrier can be bred to a clear dog with no chance of the pups being positive. With management the potential to wipe it out of the breed exists, but not in one generation.
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Saya

I want to play!
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 8:19am PST 
I've been noticing that GSds seem to be getting bigger it's sad. frown Pics I seen of my dad's GSd were not that huge.
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 11:53am PST 
I am all for what is a correct GSD, but people who get upset with Royalair are wasting their emotion, IMO. People had far less issue with them twenty years ago, when there was less campaigning against the overbreeding or "mis" breeding of GSDs. Royalair was founded on a nostalgic look back on the GSDs heyday in the 50's, where they could be kind of big (now I am not THAT old, lol, but my GSD pal in the early 70's was ginormous!) and were the quintessential American family pet. Very reliable, wise and trustworthy. And from that ambition, to offer that dog, they found more than enough market. They have been around FOREVER. In the 80's, I recall while people could snipe about no drive and huge size, it was hard not to have some level of affection for them, for they had generational families coming back to get another Royalair, and their dogs were pretty consistent overall. They knew what they were doing. And today all breeding stock of age is DM tested, they have always done prelims on their stock which is one reason why hips have never been a principal problem. They are devoted to what they produce, people love the dogs and they aren't stepping on anyone's toes.

I think the PROBLEM are the "so many" riding on their coattails, seeing how much market they have been able to generate. And THAT is something GSD people have to get over....they HAVE a strong market, and the breed itself does not have a suitable replacement. Royalair GSDs are super easygoing, kid proof, bomb proof, don't need a job, don't need a lot of exercise. And people still want that "old style" dog.

I know they have put penalties into their contract for any of their dogs to be used by the Shihloh and King Shep people. Normally, they only do intact sales on co-owns, the rest they ensure cannot produced a registered litter. But had a big problem in that for the above, you can still get registerable dogs. So they went very hardcore against people talking them into selling dogs with the covert intention of using them for breeding.

You certainly wouldn't have to put a gun to my head to take a Royalair puppy into my life. But there is no doubt that there is them and then of course my icon, Valiantdale (pretty common to surface in Royalair pedigrees, by the by), who does the more work bred old fashioned, and so many of the rest are poop. It's a dangerous area because Royalair established how much market there is for these dogs, but that only happened because they do what they do so well.

But for those who gripe generally about this, to start Royalair produces a very consistent and healthy dog, and Valiantdale has a rare and very significant pedigree that is a goldmine in this breed for what she has done with them so well for so long.
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Delta

Play hard, sleep- well.
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 12:24pm PST 
I didn't get the idea by looking at the dog, I looked at the test results.
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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 12:53pm PST 
If you looked at test results, there is no possibly.

Positive, clear, or carrier are the only options. A positive dog WILL develop symptoms, provided nothing else gets them first.

Again, if all GSD breeders pulled all positive and carrier dogs from their programs we would be in serious trouble.
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Sabi

When the night- closes in I will- be there
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 1:15pm PST 
Just out of curiosity, I checked. Two of the females are carriers. Bred to clear dogs they CANNOT produce pups with DM. At worst the pups would be carriers.
Carriers do not develop DM.
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Delta

Play hard, sleep- well.
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 1:26pm PST 
On Wikipedia it said that if one parent is a carrier, and one is clear than 50% of the puppies will be clear and 50% of the puppies will be carriers.

Yet again, anyone can write things on Wikipedia these days. I sounds a bit untrustworthy. I'll talk to my vet when Delta goes back.

I'm sorry if I caused anyone confusion, I am just dumb! I was being my dumb old self and just assumed things! I was just a bit ?. Royalair is more reputable then other breeders that I've seen, for sure.
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Ch. Ali, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!
 
 
Barked: Sun Sep 8, '13 2:13pm PST 
Delta, Wiki IS right... there is no possibility of DM in a litter of Clear bred to Carrier... all the pups will either be clear OR carriers, neither of which can ever develop the disease, therefore, it is totally safe to do this type of breeding.
The same is true of PRA in toy poodles. Ali is a carrier, however she produced three litters of which ALL the pups except one became Champions. All were tested and, as luck would have it, the two I kept were both carriers BUT again, bred to clears, there is no possible way they could EVER produce PRA, so it certainly did not cause any blind puppies.
You cannot throw out an entire breed based on whether or not they may be carriers for a recessive condition, to do so would be fatal for the entire breed in terms of other breed characteristics. Responsible breeders test and breed either clear to clear OR clear to carrier. There is no chance of the condition appearing in the offspring by breeding this way.
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