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Suspicious Breeder Has an "I am A Responsible Breeder" Article on Dogster Mag

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 12:29pm PST 
Come on, peeps....storm the gates! This guy sounds like stale cheese to me. Here is his SITE Here is the ARTICLE The good breeders of this world AND the dogs stuck in shelters need your input on this one so no falls for something like this again. Very few have put together that this is a dubious breeder. *growl*

Excerpt -

That's solid, but what are the pedigrees of your dogs? It can be a little offputting to potential customers when there are no pedigrees listed, as a lot of people out there do much the same....they want to research pedigrees before they commit to breeders. Many buyers nowadays are very savvy about OFA and CHIC databases and use them as well to confirm claims of health testing, etc., so to me it is a little curious that this is impossible to do on your website. I am a puppy buying coach, and I do coach my clients that a lack of transparency is often a little funky, so I am a little curious why if you researched pedigrees so much (which is essential, so I commend you), why you wouldn't offer potential customers that same liberty? It's just a piece of advice, that for a lot of people it's a red flag if pedigrees of breeding stock is not listed. Many take that as a red flag, as it is so easy to talk the talk when it comes to internet promotion. Good dogs always have a paper trail wink
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Joshlaska Lucy Ohannessian • 2 hours ago
Lucy,

This is more about marketing than being ethical. I am going to answer it because it was posted, but am here to talk about ethics, not marketing.

We do offer our customers the same liberty. Most breeders don't have pedigrees posted on their website. I can post anything on my website, but that doesn't make it legitimate.

Rather, we send people to third party pedigree websites, where they can see a picture of the dog, along with the AKC reg and hip cert information. It is a 3rd party that provides customers looking for any breed with a significant amount of security.

Personally, a breeder having a pedigree listed on their website means little to me, so I don't know why I would do it. When I say we researched and researched, I mean we went through SV and AKC records. We didn't go to breeder's websites and take any information as true.
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Lucy Ohannessian Joshlaska • 15 minutes ago −
I can't think of an ethical breeder who doesn't. Royalair does, and it does appear some of your dogs carry that line, and they do set the standards if that's the type of dog you are breeding (which are not medium or high drive, as you previously stated....maybe you are infusing some work lines, but I cannot know that as your site gives NO information). Moreover, OFA has no records on your Blue, unless you have changed his name. Just sayin. Would you be willing to provide OFA certifications on your dogs here? Most savvy dog shoppers are educated that page one is to take the names (full registered names being necessary) and check them on OFA, CERF, CHIC, etc. It is impossible for anyone to research you at all off the info you are giving on your site. That immediately raisers up the antenna. If you can prove all this, I recommend you do so. I would be thrilled if you proved me wrong. Marketing is a HUGE part of ethics. You are in the end marketing a product, and you want transparency. If not, you are cool with people trusting breeders on their word, which is just not where things can afford to be anymore. The internet is full of BYB scammers. We see the tragedies of this every day, and responsible sites are very free flowing with information and substance. That's where it needs to be, to encourage buyers to research and think before they buy.
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 1:53pm PST 
I am by no means calling this guy a "good" or even reputable breeder... there are certainly things on their website (and in the article) that piss me off and I would never consider buying a dog from them... BUT, I guess I'm not seeing what makes them particularly worthy of backlash?

I mean yeah, they're kinda idiots for posting an article like this when they are, at best, mediocre breeders and very BYB-ish.

But I guess for what they're trying to do, they don't really come off as slimeballs either.

At least no more than any other breeder in this breed who breeds substandard animals of a similar type, and lets face it... there are plenty of "reputable" ones who do that.
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 2:16pm PST 
I see your points, Mulder, but here is my funk.

One is that he is lying. He has two litters coming in this fall, $1,500 a pop. He's not at all established. What he lists as his first breeder dog, Blue...not even two years old. No health testing has been done, and I have no reason to believe that he will do it. But the point being that he says he OFAs, etc., and that's not true.

And gets a dog, "thinks a while" and decides to breed, and a year later is planning two litters? Okie dokie.

I will assume his dogs are house kept as he says. I have no reason to believe he will health test as he hasn't and plans to breed a non tested dog. TWICE. And ship them all over the country, with this proposed "I will pay for return shipping." Given that he's already lied about the health testing, why am I supposed to believe that one, either shrug

Really, way over there in Alaska there is plenty more regionally or in the south to be of an active concern. My shock value was more, could Dogster do no better for an "ethical" breeder. I mean, seriously? And so many there cheering him on?

It's hard to get people's attention on the internet for one second. I would have preferred Dogster show a better example. No registered names on his site, no titles, no pedigrees, no health certs, and minimal research to find some holes in his story.

So that's my snit. Not that this is like Keystone Part Two or anything, I agree. Just very frustrated, and for how many bought into it THAT fast, it's just a sign of how far we have to go.

Dude is just counting his fall profits at the moment. Or *was*, lol wink, hopefully.

One of my snits when you get to this level....it doesn't particularly look like a fantastic GSD type wise, no health testing, no qualifications on the parents, and really what can the mentorship be if he's not even two years deep into breeder dog ownership. And then you have all these shepherd puppy types dying in shelters. Who don't particularly look like a fantastic GSD type wise, no health testing, no qualifications on the parents...same deal, same with the mentorship, too. What's the difference. In that case, I say yes, save a life, and if you are not, then why not pause as to why that's not your choice, rather than buying a pup clear across the country from some newbie you don't know and who has done nothing to establish the integrity of the breeding.

I will argue with rescue all day that there IS a difference getting an optimally raised and imprinted, health tested puppy from proven parents from someone who will be a great mentor through the years. But once you get down to this level....I mean, really? shrug Why not just get a shelter pup, and save both the $1,500 and a life. Makes no sense to me, in the longrun.
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 2:23pm PST 
Agreed. Posted a reply way to go
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Rexy

I dig in mud- puddles!
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 3:57pm PST 
I actually ran across an ad for this breeder on FB a while back. Out of curiousity I did click on the link and very quickly came to the conclusion that this isn't a breeder that I would even look twice at.

Pretty poor of Dogster for not doing a better job on the screening for this article. Can't say that I am at all surprised.
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UCH Onyx TT,- CGC

Do you even- lift?
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 4:29pm PST 
I'm also disappointed in Dogster for posting an article that's basically an advertisement for this guy's kennel. They could have easily published something about reputable breeders (and have, I believe) without it being attached to a subpar kennel.

And yeah, the fact that he's already breeding the first GSDs he's ever owned speaks to how little experience he really has with the breed. It does sound like he's put in more time and effort than your average BYB, but he's still no where near what I'd call a reputable breeder for a variety of reasons.
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Toto, CD, RN, CGC

We don't do- doodles!!!
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 5:08pm PST 
I read the whole thing, including ALL the comments. While Josh talks the good talk about paying for all health issues, refunding money, etc., frankly, he has NO EXPERIENCE being a breeder to back up his claims.
What happens when his entire first litter of say, twelve puppies, end up with vWD, or epilepsy, or any other number of GSD conditions which he is completely unaware he is producing by not having any idea of what his pedigrees are since he doesn't care about pedigrees. By breeding his "first generation", he has no idea what is going to happen when he breeds A to B and they both are carrying one of these conditions. Before anyone breeds, they need to completely study ALL generations of the pedigrees they will be breeding and know everything that may be lurking back there. There is no way no how to tell what might be lurking in a dog who isn't even two years old yet, especially without thorough knowledge of his pedigree.
Those puppies will have all been sold and in their homes when these conditions begin to show up, and suddenly he is having to pay thousands of dollars TO EACH puppy owner to provide the veterinary care their dog needs as per his guarantee. What guarantee is he offering the buyer that he will even have the funds to cover these health issues?
ANYONE who thinks they can even cover the cost of producing a litter with the sale of puppies, much less maintain the upkeep on all their breeding dogs, is in for a huge shock...good, responsible, ethical breeders do not make money selling puppies, they end up having to BORROW MONEY to support their breeding program, IF it is done correctly.
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Natasha - 美花- ~Beautiful- Flower~

Let's play tag!- You're it!
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 5:15pm PST 
I think most of the people in the comments are praising him because if dogster is running the article than surely they did their research beforehand and the breeder is legit. And at first glance, for someone who doesn't know how to properly identify a responsible breeder, this guy sounds decent. You have to be able to know what things to look for before you start to question him.

I for one am still learning how to identify a responsible breeder. Sometimes it's obvious that a breeder is bad, sometimes it's not. It can get confusing for somebody who has had no experience with purchasing from a breeder, no experience in handling a purebred, no idea what to look for in a certain breed...etc...

It's especially confusing when different breeds require different tests, titles, or whatever... I'm interested in Saluki's, but have become frustrated with the breeders and the ethics surrounding purchasing a pup from one of them. So much so that I think I'll go the rescue route when it comes time for me to get my Saluki(years from now).

shrug
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Squ'mey

too old to eat- any more KD
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 5:33pm PST 
I tried posting the minute it came out..unfortunately, I can't post on Disqus...still. I sent HQ my response to try & post as a test post for me..so far nothing!
I was sick when I read it. My response is PC, but the opening line was "I guess we have a differing opinion on ethical." I was soooo glad to see you posting Tiller. smile
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UCH Onyx TT,- CGC

Do you even- lift?
 
 
Barked: Tue May 21, '13 5:38pm PST 
Agreed, Squ'mey. Reading Tiller's posts on that article was like a breath of much needed fresh air.
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