GO!

Cesar Without the Drama....Like for REAL, lol!

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 1:30pm PST 
Really wanted to share this VIDEO, which does not include CM but rather his approach of behavioral rehab through pack integration. In watching his show generally I have seen a lot of things I don't like, but I have been fascinated by the potential of this approach (certainly the pack scenes to me have been riveting, thought provoking and enlightening), and it was cool to stumble upon this with a start-to-finish sequence. Two weeks to rehab with a dog whose future was very much on the line. Really touching enrichment into this dog's life....his hell is over, and in such short time. Very nice.

Edited by author Sun Apr 28, '13 1:31pm PST

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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 2:39pm PST 
Why the heck are they carrying riding crops in the room situations?

Scratch that, I already know why.

Love the editing, but not impressed. We all have out own personal "hells"... hope this dog is free from his.
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 2:51pm PST 
Whips are used for sound distraction, my best guess,as that's how they were used in old SV photos as well. The dogs show no aversion to the whips or handlers, so that guess seems pretty safe. Dogs will tell if you look. That's the point of knowing body language, for a dog to tell you where he's at.

If you can't see the progress on that dog through his own speak....his body language....then you can't. None of those dogs act as if anything of funk is going on. This guy is a balanced trainer with the accent on positive. I still think his approach is very interesting, and in researching him today his rep in Buffalo with aggressive dogs is outstanding. If a reactive/aggressive dog now plays after two weeks....that's good. He can't play if he's not comfortable. That is true rehab.

I still do feel pack integration used in the rehabilitative process is hinting at solid potential for those who are brought up outside the CM school. It's a new wave, and it's potential is very interesting.

Edited by author Sun Apr 28, '13 2:57pm PST

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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 2:56pm PST 
I actually watched the entire video without sound, so I could determine for myself what I felt was going on... and personally, I saw some funk.

Not necessarily with the main trainer (bearded man), but in the room. Is that what they call "true" dog aggression? A dog uncomfortable in the corner of a room? Clearly definitions have changed since the last I looked.

I'm glad this dog is "fixed".
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Missy

Miss- Pig!
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 2:58pm PST 
If the owners hadn't described the dog as being dog aggressive i'd never have guessed he was. On lead he seemed to be showing more frustrated behaviour than true aggression/reactivity. Missy is tons worse on lead when she gets going and i strongly believe in a group situation off lead she would launch herself at any dog....which i guess is why they carry riding crops around thinking

I do find group rehabilitation type set ups like this interesting, but i would have liked to know what training methods they used on Drake as there was no mention of that whatsoever. You just saw the edited down version of the video with seemingly little training given to the dog at all really.

He did visibly relax with the other dogs towards the end and that was nice to see, but i still thought he seemed overly keen on those two terriers he shared his house with at the end!
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 3:04pm PST 
Fear aggression is the worst aggression. He's in the corner because in a pack a dog knows if he lights, the pack descends. That is the point of pack rehabilitation. Dogs can't practice their aggression, and if given time and space sort out other ways and develop social skills in so doing. That's the whole logic behind it....how do you place a dog around other dogs, where he needs to gain comfort, and not have him practice the aggression, which would be counter to seeking such comfort? If he can only seek comfort from learning to interact, the other dogs there teach how to be a dog. Since I first heard of this approach and had it essentially proven that dogs typically won't light in packs (no matter the emotional source of the aggression), I could see the potential.

Had the sound been on, in the pre-interview, this dog was aggressive (fear aggression, but still....bites are bites) and his life is on the line.

Now, he's playing.

Edited by author Sun Apr 28, '13 3:12pm PST

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 3:11pm PST 
He'd fought with them though, Missy, and so they themselves may have been expressing discomfort? So maybe that is the whys to that.

The whole concept of pack rehabilitation is that very few dogs will aggress when within a pack....they know then, the pack descends. I remember a Stillwell show (it was in the less excellent American version, lol) of an aggressive Boxer who his owners thought his one relief was doggie daycare, but when she observed him there he was simply just shut down and scared to pieces.

At any rate, within a pack, as the dog cannot practice his aggression, he still has the stress to alleviate and given time may seek out social contact in a "Plan B" and learn proper social interaction. That's the platform, and I do think it really shows potential. Not for all DA, but for fear dogs particularly who just simply don't know what to DO, it really interests me.
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Mulder

Spooky Mulder
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 3:11pm PST 
A few short months ago you might not have been able to tell Ridley apart from this dog. Reactivity sure is scary, I feel sorry these inexperienced people had to witness it with such a large, powerful dog.

If someone ever went at my dog (who is now as 100% "fixed" as this dog appears to be at the end of the video) with a riding crop, they would no longer be existing on this planet big grin

But that's just my opinion.
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Missy

Miss- Pig!
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 3:37pm PST 
Yeah, i think i saw one of the terrier type dogs at the end, raise it's lip at Drake which in turn seemed to kind of make Drake more interested in it. That guy then quickly interrupted with the riding crop, just enough to break Drakes attention on the dog.

I would love to have the opportunity to train Missy within a pack like this, but there is nothing remotely similar here that i've ever been able to find.
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Nare

Woo-woo- whineybutt
 
 
Barked: Sun Apr 28, '13 3:59pm PST 
I like this video of his better:
http://youtu.be/QXNnh3_xVJM

The whip in this video is used to keep a barrier around the dog-- kinda reminds me of herding almost. It doesnt have to be a whip, a stick would serve the same purpose.

Most aggressive dogs know how to pick their fights, If there is one or two dogs then they'll go at them. But with 3+ other dogs then they coward in the corner.

What I love is how all of the owners are in constant motion!! I've seen so many fights at our dog park and a lot of it is because everyone is standing in one big group and there is too much energy in the area that just isn't flowing.
I've always loved the pack-rehabilitating idea. All of the dogs are just calm. Doggy Daycare was horrible for Nare because the dogs had soo much pent up energy and would jump all over him and bombard him.
Wish they had more places like this. I'd love to send my two someplace to just chill.
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