GO!

Maybe we aren't the right home for her :-(

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

  
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Josie

1284059
 
 
Barked: Thu Feb 7, '13 12:33pm PST 
Tiller if you are around right now, I have her on live cam and I can send you the link. My boyfriend gave her a kong and left. When she finished the peanut butter she realized she was alone (5 minutes or so) and started panting, whining, barking and pawing. But now she is laying there. She does have her thundershirt on, but many reviews say it only helps temporarily.
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Lenny

Lenny -The- Wrecking Ball
 
 
Barked: Thu Feb 7, '13 12:42pm PST 
Josie, I don't have the advice Tiller has to offer in terms of SA (zero experience with it) but I wanted to say that I know how you feel as far as rescues being rather curt. Some rescues are great with the public and prospective adopters and finding the perfect match and doing follow ups... some aren't. Even when we adopted Lenny from a rescue I knew people from and volunteered for... I met a lot of very curt, not very people friendly people. I can kind of understand where they're coming from though (think of all the things they see done to the dogs and all the people out there who get a dog for the wrong reasons and who don't follow through and let dogs down).

Regardless... if you decide your situation isn't the best for Josie, than I'd recommend maybe it would be better to find another rescue in your area. Sometimes it takes awhile to find a rescue that can really help and make the experience a good one. Reach out and talk about your experience and say what you're looking for. Or maybe one of our dogsters in rescue like Tiller can maybe steer you in the direction of a rescue she knows would do well to help you find a good match while still making it a positive experience. I know you'll find the right dog hug
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Thu Feb 7, '13 12:45pm PST 
I know that's a big point and something I think a lot of rescues miss....how much of a difference support, understanding, encouragement and some guidance can make. People don't want to feel alone on this. I get my dogs from breeders but also foster a lot and co-run a rescue, and I try to bring the breeder mentality with me to rescue. Many times I am told that my manner as an adoptions counselor, even the way I pen my listings, is what made them determined to be with us as a rescue, because they are sensing that vibe. That isn't an "I am wonderful" statement, but rather that I have a concept as to the striking differences. Whenever one of my dogs starts acting funny, or comes up with a health issue, I know my answer is only a phone call away. That makes a big difference to me in my dog owning experience. What I am expecting I (within reasonable expectations) get, and when there are troubles I know where to turn.

I know, particularly with your background in S/R, that you are a forever home. So when you say "yes, I will take this dog," it is this no brainer....the dog is forever with you. And when you are looking at challenges that may become your life and feel unsupported, with so many questions and uncertainties, that can just feel very overwhelming.

I get it. I just wish more of rescue did. I volunteered for several rescues and then brushed elbows with the woman who runs the main Cocker Spaniel rescue here. She was this titan. I felt from her as if I were dealing with a breeder. She was incredibly supportive and encouraging, and her breed savvy rivaled that of my mentors. She not only had the strength of knowledge, but a gift as a coach and cheerleader, which could inspire you that yes, you could scale that mountain. It really impressioned me and in that she reminded me so much of a breeder, that's what I try my best to muse. Take off the rose colored glasses when assessing dogs, match with a serious discretion, BE there for the long haul, arm yourself with knowledge and be a support. If you don't have time and care for adopters, then you don't have time to rescue either, IMO. If you expect them to be there forever, then you need to take that view, too.

I understand that you are reluctant to extend the foster period to try, because then you get closer and then this gets harder. The rescue is too busy thinking you are being washy and that they don't have "time" for that. Sad. If breeders acted that way, what would people say? I had that happen once in all my breeder experiences, where I think she was freaking I was going to access my guarantee clause. I was too offended/hurt to deal with her again, but all her mentors and peers were there for me on the same dog. Even Tracy Bullinger, one of the top GSD breeders in North America, came out of the woodwork to help me in time. No one wants to feel alone. Rescue needs to step up.

We adopted out a Catahoula puppy once who I knew was going to be a problem. I left his page up HERE, if you want to read the way I dealt with his bio. While I was trying to find him a home he was still in the shelter, got adopted and came back the same DAY laugh out loud, with the "he tried to kill my other dog!" Of course he didn't, but he was just a lot. The shelter had adopted him to someone with a senior dog....like that was going to work! big laugh

I adopted him to a man who had had a TERRIBLE experience with a southern rescue. The dog had huge health problems, killed his chickens, many things. He was drawn to our Dogster pages though....back when we could have them and would be adopters could access them confused....because of my style of straight talk. I had to work with him for weeks to get him to commit, but he did. Fully prepared.....this puppy was one big handful. Like a bear cub in your home! big laugh Louie was one of two "foster to adopts" I have done, incidentally. I loved him enough to say if I got stuck with him, so be it wink Fortunately, my fantasy of being forthright and finding him the RIGHT home paid off, this co-mingling with being there for this man whenever he needed me. Usually, it was just to tell me another crazy Louie story. But WOW did it work. He has had this dog now for a few years and is proud as a peacock!

Louie did actually end up putting one of his dogs in the hospital during the rather trying raising period, but he was prepared. I had groomed him with truth and possibilities prior to adoption, knew I had someone with the experience and it was a good match if he stayed the course, and HE knew I was going to be there for him at every turn. We not only remain friends to this day, but two members of his family were referred to us for adoptions, and now he has recontacted me to find him another Catahoula as well.

THAT is the big picture way to go

Edited by author Thu Feb 7, '13 12:52pm PST

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Natasha - 美花- ~Beautiful- Flower~

Let's play tag!- You're it!
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 2:00am PST 
I'm not an expert and can't lend any advice, but I can relate, as an "average dog owner". I have rescued dogs and puppies off the side of the street and brought them into my home because I didn't want to take them to our local shelter. I have had many different experiences. All but two of the dogs I have rescued(from the streets or shelters) in the past have never really "clicked" with me. I'll give a few examples.

Echo - She's a 20lb Italian Greyhound/Pekingese/Cocker Spaniel/German Shepherd/Mystery Mutt mix that I rescued when she was a puppy. At first, she was great, and even though I don't really like brindle coloring, I liked *her*. But, after about only a week or so, I realized I should probably re-home her, she just didn't jive with me, mostly small, inconsequential things, but they all added up. However, my oldest sister loved her and wanted to keep her. We lived in the same house and I continued to care for her, walk her, vet her, etc.., but she wasn't *mine* anymore. Even now, I know 100% sure that if my oldest sister hadn't claimed her, I would have re-homed her and it would have been the right decision for both of us. Echo was and is scared of me at times, my mannerisms, voice, etc...are just too much for her. But she loves my sister. I'm glad they have each other.

Twister - Not really sure what he is, I'm guessing Border Collie/Mystery Mix. I rescued him as a puppy when he was more than likely dumped at my dad's place in the country. He was wonderful and great, but ended up with SA whenever he was left alone. He destroyed a Queen size mattress, two window blinds, shredded carpet, and more that I can't think of right now. Apparently from what I read up on about SA, his was a mild case, it didn't take too horribly long to train him out of it. Our dog, Budro, probably helped a great deal. I know *I* don't really want to deal with SA again and from now on if I find out a dog I have from a shelter has SA, depending on the level, I would probably return the dog. I know my limits, what I can handle and what I can't. As Twister got older, I realized more and more that we didn't jive either. Twister loved me and I was able to work with him, but he really "clicked" with my youngest sister. He absolutely adores her and she can work with him and get him to do things that I never could. So I'm glad she laid claim to him, they are great together.

I have other examples, but this post is already getting too long and I'm not sure how helpful I'm being. I guess what I'm trying to say, is be honest with yourself, about your limits, about what you desire in a dog, about what you can and are *willing* to handle, etc...

It's funny, but Natasha is the only dog I've rescued that I didn't really want at first, I had never wanted a Collie. I agreed to bring her home only because I felt sorry for her, but after a few days, I *knew* that she was *mine*. I don't know if it's her or the breed, but I love her temperament(aside from a few understandable issues), looks, play style, sense of humor, etc... With her, I know she has issues, but I know I'm capable and willing to work through them, so they don't bother me. The issues with the other dogs did bother me, even though some of them are the same as Natasha's(scared of men, overly submissive), the only difference is I "clicked" with Natasha and I don't view working on her issues as a burden or chore.

I hope you're able to make the right decision for both you and your dog. hug

Edited by author Fri Feb 8, '13 2:03am PST

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Josie

1284059
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 4:58pm PST 
The rescue has extended our trial adoption, but they say if she doesn't improve they want to find her a home with another dog. I don't think that will help. Even though she LOVES dogs, she still sometimes follows people around at doggy daycare.

Someone mentioned a book. I had already downloaded the Kindle version of another book that had better reviews than the short 38 pg one. I think it's called Don't Leave Me. I read it all in one day. Imagine my dismay when I get to the end and the author says something to the tune of, "It's been seven months since we started this journey and things are better...." AUGH! I don't have 7 months confused The book left me feeling hopeless.
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Tyler

Whippy- The- Whipador
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 5:10pm PST 
Sadly truly ingrained SA issues does take months, even years sometimes, before seeing improvements. Like some have said here, it's one of the hardest behaviour issues to tackle. I'm glad you got to extend your trial period though, that will surely help in assessing whether her behaviour is a temporary behaviour due to the recent changes in her life, or whether it's a more deep seated issue. How long has it been extended to?
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Josie

1284059
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 5:25pm PST 
Yeah, that will be helpful. Her shadowing of me is getting better.

They extended it "a week or two." I asked them if I could foster her if this doesn't work out, because the thought of dropping her off at Petco so they can return her to a kennel setting (at the rescue founder's home, but still a kennel) kills me. She said she would rather return the dog to the kennel because she had so much fun playing with the dogs frown

I've cried more over this girl than I did over losing my dog in December....because my dog and I had a good, long life together, and I was full of hope that I would have that with this sweet girl. SA stands for Sucks A$$.
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Tyler

Whippy- The- Whipador
 
 
Barked: Fri Feb 8, '13 5:53pm PST 
When she finished the peanut butter she realized she was alone (5 minutes or so) and started panting, whining, barking and pawing. But now she is laying there

So she did settle down? That's a good sign. What was she like when you returned to her?

Tyler is usually overly excited, panting and extremely clingy which is quite typical of dogs suffering with SA.

I've only scanned through this article but there is a couple of good tips and advice in there from what i've quickly gathered. You might find it helpful.

Click here

Edited by author Fri Feb 8, '13 5:55pm PST

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Smokey

Let's play tug!!
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 12:02am PST 
I agree that 6 hours on Sat would be too much right now. But sometimes daycare is really affordable if you buy a package. Also, for most dogs with SA, any human they're friendly with will do. So if you have family or friends with a responsible teenager, having them sit in your house watching TV for $20 or whatever might work out nicely for everyone. That might only be necessary for 6 or 8 weeks, while you desensitize, countercondition, and do short, frequent absences (pretend you're a cigarette smoker!) If your partner can't desensitize, just have him put her in her crate before he starts his leaving routine, so she can't become aware of his departure cues.

Only you can decide, but I hate to see you give up a dog you're so bonded with. It sounds like the two of you are a great match.
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Josie

1284059
 
 
Barked: Sat Feb 9, '13 11:58am PST 
I did another test today, in the crate for an hour and a half, no thundershirt, with classical music on. It was after we woke up, took her out for potty, gave her breakfast, walked her, then let her sniff around in the back again and played with her a bit (all this attention will not always be possible, granted, before crating).

The whining, panting and scratching at the crate started almost as soon as I left, but then at the 6 minute mark she laid down and slept. Imagine my shock as I watched and there at the 30 minute mark she was still asleep, hadn't moved an inch!

She slept for exactly a 1/2 hour, waking up at the 36 minute mark panting and whining for about 5 minutes. Then it was periods of 10 and 20 minute naps interrupted by about 2-5 minutes of panting and whining, yawning and shaking off. She did spend most of the time laying down, but was always panting when awake.

So the fact that she isn't trying to break out of the crate and isn't destructing her blanket are good. She didn't urinate today either. I am scared that one day she will regress and freak and hurt herself. I'm also worried about those occasional days we all have, you know where you just have tons of things to do and are never home? I've had those days in the past where I felt sorry for my dog sitting there all day, but never had to worry about him.
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