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Ceaser or Victoria?

This is a place to gain some understanding of dog behavior and to assist people in training their dogs and dealing with common behavior problems, regardless of the method(s) used. This can cover the spectrum from non-aversive to traditional methods of dog training. There are many ways to train a dog. Please avoid aggressive responses, and counter ideas and opinions with which you don't agree with friendly and helpful advice. Please refrain from submitting posts that promote off-topic discussions. Keep in mind that you may be receiving advice from other dog owners and lovers... not professionals. If you have a major problem, always seek the advice of a trainer or behaviorist!

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Dr. Watson

Not a wiener- dawg!
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 1:10pm PST 
Well I guess I should go back to Cesar or Victoria.....lol

I've learned things from both. I like Cesar's idea of calmness, some assertiveness (believe this depends entirely on the dog in question), and rules. But not so-called "dominance rules." I do expect my dogs to not bolt out the door, to sit reasonable quietly to be leashed up, but if it is more convenient that they go out the door first, so be it. But, all in all, he is a pack theorist, not a dominance theorist. And I am quite sure about this because I read "The Monks of New Skete" and raised a puppy with a very few of their ideas, which made absolutely no impact on his development.lol I have to say I really like the work that Cesar does with very aggressive dogs, pitties, and his rehoming of dogs that don't work out with owners.

Victoria is certainly not as charismatic as Cesar, be that as it may. She is amusing with her dress, her flashy car, etc. The premise of her show is markedly different. In addition, she works with dogs, usually, with much more minor problems than Cesar does, with less aggressive dogs. She works a lot with people who have "spoiled" their dogs, although I seen Cesar work with some very spoiled Chis and learned a lot from this. I remember in particular with Victoria, a dog who only ate ON the table from a fork, and a dog who wouldn't let the husband in bed. Fascinating and over the top behaviors, and amazing that the owners allowed them. I also found it interesting that by teaching the partner(s) who didn't like the dog a few tricks she improved the relationship. I don't know that that would work in all situations. She, like Cesar, puts a good emphasis on physical exercise and walks, which I feel is so important for all dogs. I have to say I also adopted the "Eh-eh" she used to use, rather than "no!"

But I find that both of them do stupid things. Just recently Cesar was teaching a Flattie to give up tossed toys. I thought he went about it completely wrong. And Victoria doesn't do enough obedience training in the home for me, or rather enough manners training.

So six of one, half dozen of the other. Heck, I used to watch Barbara Woodhouse and grew up with a Rudd Weatherwax book! I don't think I absolutely ruined a dog either. wink




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Tyler

Whippy- The- Whipador
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 1:43pm PST 
I don't know whether you watched the same episode Watson, but i watched a UK episode where a husband & wife were having troubles with their Bulldog not allowing the husband into bed too. It also didn't "allow" anyone in the front seat of the car either. I wondered why on earth such behaviour was allowed too but it's clear where those dogs issues stemmed from. Not so much a case of the dog not allowing the husband in the bed etc, but rather the wife not telling the dog to get off! Speaks more about the state of their marriage than the problems with the dog i think! laugh out loud

Edited by author Sat Jan 19, '13 1:43pm PST

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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 1:44pm PST 
Ah, Barbara Woodhouse laugh out loud I have a comic book style Woodhouse book of old I just gave to Duncan's daughter.

I think just as it's hard for anyone to mentor off of a series of half hour, heavily edited things, it's hard to judge the trainers, either. We do a lot of assumptions. I am curious about the dog owning histories of both, lol! What is it with all these dog trainers who don't have average dog experience? Stillwell hadn't even owned dogs yet when she was England's tv trainer. Does CM have housedogs? I don't really know. Even some training icons in other media aren't deep with a live lived with dogs. That's why someone like McConnell, Clothier....yeah, ok, they've been there, done that. A lot of times, though, it's curiously absent.
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Dr. Watson

Not a wiener- dawg!
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 1:55pm PST 
That's just plain weird about Stilwell not having dogs before, Tiller. And I would like to know more about the dog background of these trainers, "whisperers," etc.

Too bad a show with Clothier wouldn't sell. Didn't McConnell have a brief show, or was it a radio show? You have to be charismatic and attractive to get a show, that's for sure.
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 2:02pm PST 
Years ago, she had a Q&A on Animal Planet. People would send videos in. It was a nice format, but then Animal Planet got sold and now we have something far odder wink

In the English version of Stillwell's show, I think quite a few had spouse banishing bed issues laugh out loud
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Tiller- (Skansen's- Ira in the M

I DO Exist...To- Drive You Batty
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 2:09pm PST 
Looked it up! "Petline" 1997-1999. There was some guy who was co-anchor, but he I can't remember. It was a cool format, sort of opened up a conversation. Not really showing a trainer doing anything, but giving advice, explaining behavior, sharing anecdotes, etc.

Edited by author Wed Jan 23, '13 4:52pm PST

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Titus

Cave canis- vigilo omnis
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 2:44pm PST 
I've learned from both as well, but favor neither. I'm a fan of Eisenmann and Ian Dunbar, and of Grisha Stewart and BAT, Patricia McConnell; and to a lesser extent, Jean Donaldson and Jane Killion.

If I'm not mistaken, Stilwell was an actress, then a dog walker

Edited by author Sat Jan 19, '13 2:49pm PST

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G2

Be Scaredy of- Me, Dawg!
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 7:32pm PST 
"If I'm not mistaken, Stilwell was an actress, then a dog walker"

Really? Well, no wonder - tv celebs are the go to folks for training. confused
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Sarge

Teddybear
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 8:02pm PST 
I prefer Ceaser. Victoria has some good training ideas and I will watch her shows but I enjoy Ceaser's personality and training methods more then Victoria. I also prefer the way Ceaser talks and treats people better then Victoria. I don't have a set method I train my dogs. For me it's always going to vary depending on the dog.
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Sanka- I'll Miss- You

The ground is my- newspaper.
 
 
Barked: Sat Jan 19, '13 8:41pm PST 
I wasn't aware that Stilwell hadn't owned house pets prior. That is very interesting. I will say that her older UK shows are much more tolerable to me than the stuff now. Eh, now she just comes off as a harsh know-it-all. A bit of a military feel. Her way or nothing.

I know I've seen lots of episodes where they go to Cesar's house, and you do see his "family" dogs. He references a chi as his son's dog. You'd see Daddy there in older episodes, and now you see Junior. A few other dogs hang around, but it's not the masses like his center, which is what you usually see. So, he does kind of seem to have that feel for house life with the dogs.
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